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I swear to god that i'm a non believer

stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
And this is where you made your first mistake. Explaining the drawbacks of faith is not belittling it. The fact is that it is not a pathway to the truth. I did justify that claim. You did nothing to refute it.

You had no point, you had an error. And you began your own personal attacks way back when you stated "BUT not scientific statements at all. "

That was foolish at best on your part. One can take a scientific approach to faith and find that it fails.

We are not going to agree on faith because I stated some general truths about it. By faith one can believe in any religious belief. At best only one is right, though all could be wrong. That tells us faith is not a pathway to truth since if if was there would be agreement between people, not the endless strife we see between religions. If faith was a pathway to truth that could be demonstrated to everyone. Instead at best we have theists say "I know" when in reality they only believe.

So once again stating an obvious and demonstrable fact is not "belittling". If you wanted to debate that you should have supported your beliefs, but you don't seem to be able to. Which only supports my claims. If your claims were justifiable you could show how faith is a pathway to truth. And that is why I was able to correctly claim you were trying to shift the burden of proof.
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Thanks for proving my point to be true
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
stvdv said:
Thanks for proving my point to be true
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You will never learn with an attitude like this. I was not the only one that pointed out how you personally attacked others. If you dish it out you have to be able to take it.

By the way what happened to your claim that you were going to try to rise above this that you made in another thread yesterday?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Shantanu said:
If this is true I have learnt something new today.
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It is called "The problem of evil". The oldest formal statement of it that I know of was by Epicurus:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

Quote – Epicurus on the problem of evil
 
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Shantanu

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
It is called "The problem of evil". The oldest formal statement of it that I know of was by Epicurus:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

Quote – Epicurus on the problem of evil
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God does not want anything to do with how humans live: he wants us to be atheists and identify and deal with evil ourselves.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Shantanu said:
God does not want anything to do with how humans live: he wants us to be atheists and identify and deal with evil ourselves.
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Really? Now that is an interesting belief. Is this god to be worshiped? Why does he do this? Do you understand the problem of evil? If there is an all powerful all knowing God then that God is guilty of all evil on this world.
 
TheresOnlyNow

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
viole said:
What first cause?
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That which made everything that is to come into existence.



That is logically absurd. If, as I expect, you believe that God belongs to the set of things that exist, then your statement entails that God is by God.
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If you think so.



The answer to what? Why black holes exist, for instance?
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If that's your answer.

Ciao

- viole
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Bye
 
TheresOnlyNow

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
wandering peacefully said:
I have come to the conclusion, after years of seeing atheists trying to explain what atheism is to theists, it is just not possible. Language wise it is very simple and they can understand the individual words. But putting the words together as a concept is just impossible for those who believe gods or God is a real physical or worse a non-physical entity.

An atheist does not believe God or gods as described by theists of all stripes are real things. They lack belief in the concepts put forth by theists.

Some atheists go further by positing it is impossible for gods to exist. It well may be. A lot of atheists say we can't know for sure as of yet because science and knowledge of the universe is still in a learning stage.

But all atheists reject the millions of different ideas man has dreamt up about Gods and the formed religions around their versions of gods. They all lack proof of their claims.

Even with saying this, theists who believe God is a real thing will not be able to understand. Their brains are unable to process these concepts because they are so certain God is real. It is like trying to convince yourself that the face you are looking at in a mirror really doesn't belong to you. Or your mother who was proven to have birthed you, is not your biological mother. It is such a part of who they are it is impossible for it not to be real.

But it is still entertaining, although somewhat frustrating at times, to watch them try. Especially the explanations by theists with pages of diatribe on what atheists "believe" and how their lives are lived and what horrible humans they are.

Only an atheist can truly understand atheism. Hence the continued conversations between theists and a-theists.
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Or, theists understand what atheists do not believe.
While some atheists are certain no thing called deity is cause for all that is, they're unable to explain with an absolute that would sustain skepticism toward the theist pov what did cause all that is to become present in their visual conscious awareness of that which occupies the material realm.

And the defensive posture that will often arrive to rebut that observation being, one cannot be asked to prove a negative, is precisely what the atheistic perspective consists of.
That declaration in the midst of all that exists in the material realm, that there is no evidence a deity made it to occur.
But the material realm is present in our conscious awareness in the observable universe. And upon our terrestrial field.
Therefore, the absolute declaration that there is no evidence something unseen created what is seen is as vacant as is the atheists most favored discipline, science, in its attempt at explanation. Often called, the big bang theory.
But what is oft overlooked?

What caused something to form that would be able to go "bang" in the first place?
No absolutes as answer as yet.
The atheist prefers scientific theory to theistic faith.

And that's what makes some atheists believe themselves to be mentally superior to theists.
 
TheresOnlyNow

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
ChristineM said:
Please provide said evidence

Neither can theism so it fills in the gap with god magic.

In actual fact no first cause is required because the laws of thermodynamics did not begin to coalesce until after the bb

Do i need to believe in an answer? I know of 27 valid answers that each can be verified as plausible using either mathematics or/and observations of phenomena in our universe. Which is right? I do not know, nor, given current technology will any one know. I am sure of one thing though, i have no need to guess to massage a faith.
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You prefer massage theory.

What created that which was to go "bang"?
 
Shantanu

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Really? Now that is an interesting belief. Is this god to be worshiped? Why does he do this? Do you understand the problem of evil? If there is an all powerful all knowing God then that God is guilty of all evil on this world.
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You are right, that God created the evil that you perceive and deal with on a daily basis.
 
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