I swear to god that i'm a non believer

[stvdv]

A simple blood test should have detected that. If you had health problems why wasn't a blood test taken?

Was ca. 25 years ago. Doctors did not think of that (at least not the ones I went to). Nowadays B12 is taken much more serious.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I did not deflect. What I had in mind when replying to you with the below line, were my personal experiences due to "my Faith alone":
And for your information "I could name quite a few things that I invented/discovered by Faith alone".

1) I had immense health problems (doctors could not find my problems). I had Faith in my Master. My Master came into my dream and told me "you need to inject B12". I went to the hospital and my B12 was down to 16 pmol/L (which should be more than 200). The doctor freaked out completely. If My Master had not told me, I would have never known and maybe not been alive anymore (such a low number is really dangerous). So by Faith alone (in My Master) I discovered my B12 problem.

I am happy for you that you discovered a cure for what ailed you.

However, personal anecdotes do not evidence make. I had a very vivid dream about my recently diseased mother-- it was one of the most vivid dreams I had ever experienced, and I found it moving.

But. That was just a dream, same as yours. It's not proof of anything apart from amazing ability of the human brain to fabricate incredible ... dreams.

So, your anecdote does not qualify any more than mine does.

 

[stvdv]

I am happy for you that you discovered a cure for what ailed you.

However, personal anecdotes do not evidence make. I had a very vivid dream about my recently diseased mother-- it was one of the most vivid dreams I had ever experienced, and I found it moving.

But. That was just a dream, same as yours. It's not proof of anything apart from amazing ability of the human brain to fabricate incredible ... dreams.

So, your anecdote does not qualify any more than mine does.

You missed the difference. My dream was scientifically verified. And was found accurate. B12 was proven to be my main problem. Could have killed me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You missed the difference. My dream was scientifically verified. And was found accurate. B12 was proven to be my main problem. Could have killed me.

How can a dream by "scientifically verified"? Was there a peer reviewed paper published about it?

 

[stvdv]

How can a dream by "scientifically verified"? Was there a peer reviewed paper published about it?

Strike-out

 

[Subduction Zone]

Strike-out

So it was not "scientifically verified".

Thought not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I did not deflect. What I had in mind when replying to you with the below line, were my personal experiences due to "my Faith alone":
And for your information "I could name quite a few things that I invented/discovered by Faith alone".

1) I had immense health problems (doctors could not find my problems). I had Faith in my Master. My Master came into my dream and told me "you need to inject B12". I went to the hospital and my B12 was down to 16 pmol/L (which should be more than 200). The doctor freaked out completely. If My Master had not told me, I would have never known and maybe not been alive anymore (such a low number is really dangerous). So by Faith alone (in My Master) I discovered my B12 problem.

As I thought. This is not a case of being scientifically verified.

For that to be the case you would need to have a proper record of your dream BEFORE you went to the doctor. You memory does not count. Especially since one of the symptoms of B 12 deficiency is a mental fog. You could have easily reconstructed false memories after the fact. Or if is even possible that you self diagnosed. Your memory in this case is not reliable at all:

Vitamin B12 Deficiency: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment

now you might swear by your memories today, but with confusion being one of the symptoms, they preclude your claim of being verified with it a lot more than you have stated here.

 

[Shantanu]

Aren't you the member that once said your spiritual quest resulted in your arriving at the conclusion that you are God?

That is what I believed at the time. I was exploring truth. You should remember that the UK State has diagnosed me as a mentally ill person suffering from persistent delusional disorder for which I am forced to take 'risperidone' and 'sertraline' antipsychotic and antidepressant medications. So either God wanted me to go through this experience or there is no God. I feel perfectly normal and intelligent guy who knows the truth that God exists and I have had conversations with God during the past 20 years, so much so that I became infallible in my thoughts and actions to survive what I saw as this State persecution. So either I am right or the UK State is right: who can judge?

 

[Koldo]

This is not the problem. The problem and the disagreements come when the atheist imagines, and then insists to everyone else, that "fiction isn't real". Or that, "if it isn't real, it isn't true". Because what most atheists mean by "real" and "true", is 'materially extant'. And this is not how theists perceive or experience their reality.

Source ?
It is very hard to come across anyone that would say fiction is real.

 

[PureX]

That is what I believed at the time. I was exploring truth. You should remember that the UK State has diagnosed me as a mentally ill person suffering from persistent delusional disorder for which I am forced to take 'risperidone' and 'sertraline' antipsychotic and antidepressant medications. So either God wanted me to go through this experience or there is no God. I feel perfectly normal and intelligent guy who knows the truth that God exists and I have had conversations with God during the past 20 years, so much so that I became infallible in my thoughts and actions to survive what I saw as this State persecution. So either I am right or the UK State is right: who can judge?

You apparently don't know humans very well, because we ALL can and will judge anything, anytime, for any reason, and will do so uninvited, unprovoked, unabashedly, and unapologetically.

 

[Shantanu]

You apparently don't know humans very well, because we ALL can and will judge anything, anytime, for any reason, and will do so uninvited, unprovoked, unabashedly, and unapologetically.

Yes, and one gets better and better at judging when one seeks truth through truth accommodation (satya-advaita).

 

[stvdv]

I have struggled to understand this theist view of atheism and I can only conclude that they [certain theists] cannot conceive of the atheist viewpoint because they think in terms of god

In my opinion "thinking in terms of God" is not a problem at all. I did it a lot. The problem only starts when "Judging others in terms of God"

This is not the problem. The problem and the disagreements come when the atheist imagines, and then insists to everyone else, that "fiction isn't real". Or that, "if it isn't real, it isn't true". Because what most atheists mean by "real" and "true", is 'materially extant'. And this is not how theists perceive or experience their reality

You apparently don't know humans very well, because we ALL can and will judge anything, anytime, for any reason, and will do so uninvited, unprovoked, unabashedly, and unapologetically.

I agree that this "judging" is the problem. Not (a)theists imposing alone, but any human imposing on another human IMO.

I have 1 goal in (spiritual) life right now ... to stop this habit of judging others. And when I judge, I admit and apologize.
If I would say "we all can and will judge.....", that would be an affirmation that will prevent me from stopping this habit.
That's why I turned it around and decided "I don't do this judging others anymore" (Does not make me/others happy)

Notes (all these are just personal opinions ... not claiming anything to be true):
When I talk about "judging" I mean judging/belittling the Faith/belief/Religion (or lack thereof) of the other
I do not talk about judging as in common sense "judging hurtful actions etc".
And I don't expect others to "not judge". Their free choice. As I also have free choice not to do it.
I met many people who really enjoy judging others, so probably for them it's good, but not for me.

 

[PureX]

Yes, and one gets better and better at judging when one seeks truth through truth accommodation (satya-advaita).

'Truth" is just finding the right fantasy at the right time. But "you go, girl!"

 

[Shantanu]

'Truth" is just finding the right fantasy at the right time. But "you go, girl!"

Truth has to be individually generated moment by moment in every involvement one has through actions.

 

[PureX]

In my opinion "thinking in terms of God" is not a problem at all. I did it a lot. The problem only starts when "Judging others in terms of God"





I agree that this "judging" is the problem. Not (a)theists imposing alone, but any human imposing on another human IMO.

I have 1 goal in (spiritual) life right now ... to stop this habit of judging others. And when I judge, I admit and apologize.
If I would say "we all can and will judge.....", that would be an affirmation that will prevent me from stopping this habit.
That's why I turned it around and decided "I don't do this judging others anymore" (Does not make me/others happy)

Notes:
When I talk about "judging" I mean judging/belittling the Faith/belief/Religion of the other
I do not talk about judging as in common sense "judging hurtful actions etc".
And I don't expect others to "not judge". Their free choice. As I also have free choice not to do it.
I met many people who really enjoy judging others, so probably for them it's good, but not for me.

I have found that sometimes it's of benefit to me to study my own judgments. If I find myself reacting strongly to some judgment/assessment of someone else, I become curious about why I am reacting that way. What is it in me, that the other person's words or behaviors are triggering? And usually I find some fear or bias that my ego is automatically trying to hold onto and protect, that once exposed, is quite silly and can then be dismissed. And occasionally, I find I have good reason to be judgmental, and condemning, and then I know it's time for me to act. Even if I'm wrong, I feel it's important to fulfill my own ideals. Otherwise, how will I come to know when my ideals are wrong, and/or, why am I even here if not to 'be me' (as opposed to just being here, always neutral)?

 

[stvdv]

Yes, and one gets better and better at judging when one seeks truth through truth accommodation (satya-advaita)

Satya Advaita seems to me "Oneness with Truth". Advaita means non-dual. So there is no judging when there is ONE. So you were saying "getting better at judging" meaning "judging less". Did I understood correctly?

 

[Shantanu]

Satya Advaita seems to me "Oneness with Truth". Advaita means non-dual. So there is no judging when there is ONE. So you were saying "getting better at judging" meaning "judging less". Did I understood correctly?

No it means judging everything that moves.

 

[PureX]

Truth has to be individually generated moment by moment in every involvement one has through actions.

The truth is what is. It needs no "generation"; just awareness. But I suppose we may have to "generate" that awareness. Mostly by ignoring all the other crap that is always going on in our heads.

 

[stvdv]

I have found that sometimes it's of benefit to me to study my own judgments. If I find myself reacting strongly to some judgment/assessment of someone else, I become curious about why I am reacting that way. What is it in me, that the other person's words or behaviors are triggering? And usually I find some fear or bias that my ego is automatically trying to hold onto and protect, that once exposed, is quite silly and can then be dismissed. And occasionally, I find I have good reason to be judgmental, and condemning, and then I know it's time for me to act. Even if I'm wrong, I feel it's important to fulfill my own ideals. Otherwise, how will I come to know when my ideals are wrong, and/or, why am I even here if not to 'be me' (as opposed to just being here, always neutral)?

I fully agree. I have been practising this also on RF. Fear is a big one for me also. Always good to follow your feelings. And others will let you know if they like it or not. For me it's all about introspection and learning. At certain times I do more introspection and at other times "the Dragon comes out" (but when it comes it's almost always Truth speaking ... people really crossed the line ... and then I even enjoy "the Dragon").

 

[stvdv]

No it means judging everything that moves.

Thanks for clarifying.