I swear to god that i'm a non believer

[Subduction Zone]

It may be that Athiests think that God is something tangible to the material senses, some theists may have given that impression.

If we use science we can get a better concept of what is God. The thing here is, is that God is all we do know in this material world and all creation, all we are yet to know in this world and all creation and all we can not know in both this world and all creation.

God is the cause. Science are yet to name the cause, at one time I heard some scientists call it the 'Love Force'.

So is it not time that Both Religion and Science work together? A united mind builds, a divide mind demolishes.

Peace be with all, regards Tony

So far any theist that has claimed to "know" a God exists has been always mistaken at best, quite often delusional, and sometimes dishonest. How do you know that a God exists? Not just a strong belief, what knowledge do you have that supports your claim.

 

[David T]

So where am i wrong, where is it illogically irrelevant, where is it fantasy driven?

Dont pontificate, put your money where your mouth is

And who said anything about agnostic??? Or, you fdid

I dont believe has zero to do with much. About exactly As much as i believe. Its really not that difficult.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No. The best knowledge is based on systems deliberately designed to eliminate the faith component, and to minimize or limit mere human perceptions too.

This is why the Scientific Method is so successful: it demands not-faith. To make it work well? Human failings of perception have to be eliminated too (google Double Blind Experiment).

This very computer, is one of the Fruits of Science.

You cannot name a single thing that Faith has invented or discovered.

Ha ha, I could but will not.

One may have to consider that the source of mind is not ones own self. One may say it was them that discovered something, but in reality they have only brought it from the unknown to the known.

Regards Tony

 

[wandering peacefully]

So far any theist that has claimed to "know" a God exists has been always mistaken at best, quite often delusional, and sometimes dishonest. How do you know that a God exists? Not just a strong belief, what knowledge do you have that supports your claim.

Are you seriously going to ask a Baha'i for evidence? Please don't .

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Um okay. You and most of the rest of the population. And again, you only further confirm my point. If you really did understand atheism, you wouldn't rely on religious faith to form your worldview. To each his own. I imagine it will be another 6 generations or so before the religious magic is totally removed from the human condition. If we can even make it that long with the overall view that this planet is nothing more than a dumping station for the heavenly or Godly bound.

Understanding and and choosing to be, are two different things. It is very, very easy to understand and to be an Atheist. I can say that, I was one as is my Father.

Personally now I see it as a cop out, the easy path.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you seriously going to ask a Baha'i for evidence? Please don't .

I know. I have tried. They do not understand the concept, though they think that they do. Perhaps not all, but those that claim to "know" constantly demonstrate that they do not.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So far any theist that has claimed to "know" a God exists has been always mistaken at best, quite often delusional, and sometimes dishonest. How do you know that a God exists? Not just a strong belief, what knowledge do you have that supports your claim.

Until you try how will you know? If you try, how committed is the effort?

I can say is was nearly 30 years in Faith before I actually found God in Faith. Prayer has been confirmation for me. Dreams I had mentioned to others at the time, being fulfilled in full a few years later. Peace of mind that life is not for self and the bounty of being able to live life to give to others, are all confirmation for me that we are more than flesh.

Baha'u'llah has offered if you want proof of God, then ask in all sincerity, but ask of one thing only and if it is given, have no doubt thereafter. Not many will take that challenge. Many will take the challenge without the heart required. Many get an answer and hesitate, thinking a coincidence.

Thus the ball is now in your court. Take the challenge, if your heart really wants to know. But if you like playing these RF games, then by all means carry on as we are.

Regards Tony

 

[wandering peacefully]

Understanding and and choosing to be, are two different things. It is very, very easy to understand and to be an Atheist. I can say that, I was one as is my Father.

Personally now I see it as a cop out, the easy path.

Regards Tony

Just because your father may have understood atheism does not mean you do.

The cop out in my view is to choose to believe there is a big sky daddy out there somewhere who in the end, will always make things right. It is a comfort thing and is very easy for anyone who is in need of emotional or egotistical support. Or for people who just cannot deal with the reality of their life. Or day dreamers. There are endless reasons people choose to believe in fantasy or comforting ideas. Not that anyone should be forced to live life without the comforting ideas.

The difficult path is the one that faces and deals honestly with the often harsh realities of this real life and death.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I know. I have tried. They do not understand the concept, though they think that they do. Perhaps not all, but those that claim to "know" constantly demonstrate that they do not.

Too late

 

[Subduction Zone]

Until you try how will you know? If you try, how committed is the effort?

I can say is was nearly 30 years in Faith before I actually found God in Faith. Prayer has been confirmation for me. Dreams I had mentioned to others at the time, being fulfilled in full a few years later. Peace of mind that life is not for self and the bounty of being able to live life to give to others, are all confirmation for me that we are more than flesh.

Baha'u'llah has offered if you want proof of God, then ask in all sincerity, but ask of one thing only and if it is given, have no doubt thereafter. Not many will take that challenge. Many will take the challenge without the heart required. Many get an answer and hesitate, thinking a coincidence.

Thus the ball is now in your court. Take the challenge, if your heart really wants to know. But if you like playing these RF games, then by all means carry on as we are.

Regards Tony

You have it backwards. You made a claim about knowing something. That puts the burden of proof upon you. You are the one that needs to meet the challenge.

 

[stvdv]

You cannot name a single thing that Faith has invented or discovered

The problem is that theists belittle atheists. Belittling is religious arrogance which blinds the person and it's incurable; obvious when knowing the definition of arrogance. As a reaction atheists try to prove theists are wrong; which is understandable, but therefore a bit useless, when understanding "arrogance".

I discovered it's best to never debate arrogant people. Just totally ignore them (No contact). If nobody listens to evangelists, evangelism dies out immediately. Give them one finger (listen 1 sec to them) and they take your whole hand (keep evangelizing). But it's tricky, because religion still rules the world (too much). So naturally action needs to be taken. But use smart actions.

BUT your claim "You cannot name a single thing that Faith has invented or discovered" is exactly the same as what theists do. Now you impose on theists what they should feel/believe/know. Atheist better stick to what they are best at (don't follow bad examples of theists). And theists better do the same.

And for your information "I could name quite a few things that I invented and discovered by Faith alone".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The difficult path is the one that faces and deals honestly with the often harsh realities of this real life and death.

The people I find doing this, in all parts of the earth I have visited, on the front line, are doing it for humainty in service to a faith they have embraced, or If not a Faith, they do it as just the right thing to do.

In the end, does it matter as long as we all help each other in life?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You have it backwards. You made a claim about knowing something. That puts the burden of proof upon you. You are the one that needs to meet the challenge.

It is a wonderful merry go round life.

Have a great life, be happy, be safe, be well and I be gone. All the best.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I know. I have tried. They do not understand the concept, though they think that they do. Perhaps not all, but those that claim to "know" constantly demonstrate that they do not.

Reminds me of beginning teachers who were naive enough to ask their students if they understood. I felt like yelling. "Just give a simple quiz already!" One day I made up a word ... just sound, no meaning. Something like 'pefurkle' and said to my class, "Raise your hand if you know what a pefurkle is.' About half the kids raised their hands. When I said, 'Who has no clue?" a few raised their hands. Some others thought maybe they'd heard of it before. Then we went into the discussion that I was there to help, and that if they really didn't understand something, the onus was partly on them to let me know ... or ask the kid in front of you.

Some, but not all egocentric folk remind me of that. They know everything, and the insecurity ego blocks them form ever discovering something new. Personally, I find it kind of odd, but hey.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The problem is that theists belittle atheists. Belittling is religious arrogance which blinds the person and it's incurable; obvious when knowing the definition of arrogance. As a reaction atheists try to prove theists are wrong; which is understandable, but therefore a bit useless, when understanding "arrogance".

I discovered it's best to never debate arrogant people. Just totally ignore them (No contact). If nobody listens to evangelists, evangelism dies out immediately. Give them one finger (listen 1 sec to them) and they take your whole hand (keep evangelizing). But it's tricky, because religion still rules the world (too much). So naturally action needs to be taken. But use smart actions.

BUT your claim "You cannot name a single thing that Faith has invented or discovered" is exactly the same as what theists do. Now you impose on theists what they should feel/believe/know. Atheist better stick to what they are best at (don't follow bad examples of theists). And theists better do the same.

And for your information "I could name quite a few things that I invented and discovered by Faith alone".

The problem with faith is that it is not a pathway to the truth. One can believe any religion by faith. It does not offer a way to test and confirm or refute one's beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is a wonderful merry go round life.

Have a great life, be happy, be safe, be well and I be gone. All the best.

Regards Tony

So you do not "know", or so your failure indicates.

There is nothing wrong with stating that you believe something. But when you say you know that is another matter altogether.

 

[stvdv]

The problem with faith is that it is not a pathway to the truth. One can believe any religion by faith. It does not offer a way to test and confirm or refute one's beliefs.

You missed my point. The problem is that people tend to "know what is best for others; how to feel/believe/know". You talk about Faith as if you know everything about Faith. Your religion shows "Atheist". What I learned on RF is that atheism is something like "Lack of Faith", I never heard something like "expert on Faith".

You can say "For me Faith is not a pathway to the truth". No need to impose your view on me, and for sure not by making it sound like a Fact. Theists have been doing this too long already. I thought atheists were different.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You missed my point. The problem is that people tend to "know what is best for others; how to feel/believe/know". You talk about Faith as if you know everything about Faith. Your religion shows "Atheist". What I learned on RF is that atheism is something like "Lack of Faith", I never heard something like "expert on Faith".

You can say "For me Faith is not a pathway to the truth". No need to impose your view on me, and for sure not by making it sound like a Fact. Theists have been doing this too long already. I thought atheists were different.

I do know enough about faith to know that it does not appear to lead anywhere. When it comes down to why people believe various religions it is always faith. Since these religions contradict each other they cannot be all correct. In fact at most one of them is. Faith "confirms" a Wrong answer just as much as a Wrong one it appears.

 

[wandering peacefully]

The people I find doing this, in all parts of the earth I have visited, on the front line, are doing it for humainty in service to a faith they have embraced, or If not a Faith, they do it as just the right thing to do.

In the end, does it matter as long as we all help each other in life?

Regards Tony

It is always best to do what is best for all living creatures and the planet. This is far from the original topic so I will bow out for now. Good day.

 

[stvdv]

I do know enough about faith to know that it does not appear to lead anywhere

You make a similar mistake many theists make. Claiming to know only their Faith leads somewhere.

You claim "I do know enough about faith to know that it does not appear to lead anywhere"

Quite bold statements, BUT not scientific statements at all. Contradicting each other even:
.... "I do know enough" .... "to know" .... "that it does not appear"(indicating "not knowing for sure")

I only speak for myself; learned how "not to do it" from theists claiming "to be all knowing" even for others.
I never claim to know how it works for others, and definitely not for everyone and everywhere and stuff.

But if you insist to stick to claiming "Faith leads nowhere for anyone" .... I agree to disagree on this one.