I think this answers all the questions - Who really is a Jew?

[metis]

I agree about the bogusity of the OP, but I have heard Jews vehemently deny that a Jew can convert to Christianity and retain his Jewishness. Lots of Jews seem to hold that position, at least in my experience. Do you agree with it?

If one is born "Jewish", they're Jewish for life no matter where they go or what they believe. It's a nationality and a community of sorts, and if they leave the community, they only lose that aspect of their Jewishness.

 

[Flankerl]

Indeed not. You are the one who rejects the basic tenets of Judaism. I am here to try and bring you back to the old ways. I understand that modern heresies about Jewishness will control the reality of modern 'Jews' indoctrinated to believe in them, but there is no need for anyone to remain confused about their Jewishness.

So what basic tenets do i reject? Enlighten me.

What modern heresies do i follow?

Am I not here to answer all your questions?

No you are here because you registered on this site.

Hey, I only report what I see. Sorry if it upsets.

Examples.

There is some argumentation from a person who is not confused about the fundamentals, I guess.

Examples.

And more of it.



And more.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know how to counter illogical argumentation. I guess you'll have to ride that train on without me. But thanks for the invitation.

Yeah the Pashtuns are like street gangs. How nice of you to call them murderers, rapists, drug dealers, etc.

inb4 "uh i didnt call them that".

 

[Sleeppy]

Jews are "Jews" either through birth or conversion, but the conversion part has to be through a bet din (Jewish court), and this is because one whom is seeking to becoming part of the Jewish community. A person who converts to Christianity simply is not becoming part of the Jewish community.

I understand your perception.. But, Christians are a part of the Jewish community, by default. Muslims are a part of the Jewish community, by default. These are reactions to the action. Judaism concerns the entire Earth, to billions of people all over the Earth. Why? Because they've built their living foundations on Jewish history and morality.

Truth is.. doesn't matter what anyone's called. It matters what we do.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

If one is born "Jewish", they're Jewish for life no matter where they go or what they believe. It's a nationality and a community of sorts, and if they leave the community, they only lose that aspect of their Jewishness.

Thanks for the clear answer, and I'm happy to hear it. It makes more sense and feels more humane than the opposite view which I've heard from so many Jews about those Jews who convert to Christianity.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

So what basic tenets do i reject? Enlighten me.

Lots of them. Like the tenet that all Christians are Jews, just for one. You reject that Jewish tenet, don't you? You sure seem to.

What modern heresies do i follow?

Don't you believe that a guy has to have a Jewish mother in order to be Jewish?

I mean, talk about a modern heresy!

Yeah the Pashtuns are like street gangs. How nice of you to call them murderers, rapists, drug dealers, etc.

inb4 "uh i didnt call them that".

Oh, my. How very hilarious.

 

[Flankerl]

Lots of them. Like the tenet that all Christians are Jews, just for one. You reject that Jewish tenet, don't you? You sure seem to.

What? Christians arent Jews.

Don't you believe that a guy has to have a Jewish mother in order to be Jewish?

I mean, talk about a modern heresy!

"at least 2000 years old"
"modern"

Oh, my. How very hilarious.

Yeah calling normal people gang members is fun isnt it?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

What? Christians arent Jews.

Ipso facto, and see what I mean? A follower of modern heresy.

Yeah calling normal people gang members is fun isnt it?

Ah. So you are prejudiced against gang members. I didn't know that, but I guess it makes sense. Most people don't think past the headlines.

Now don't you feel silly for accusing me of bad behavior for comparing Jews and Crips? It was your own prejudice which was at fault.

Just curious: If I compared Jews to black people, would you be as outraged as you are when I compare Jews to gangs?

 

[Flankerl]

Ipso facto, and see what I mean? A follower of modern heresy.

Iam sorry i didnt realise that you are one of the special snow flakes of the forum.

Ah. So you are prejudiced against gang members. I didn't know that, but I guess it makes sense. Most people don't think past the headlines.

Now don't you feel silly for accusing me of bad behavior for comparing Jews and Crips? It was your own prejudice which was at fault.

Why yes of course Gang members are positive members of their societies.

As are Cartel members and members of the Mafia.

Just curious: If I compared Jews to black people, would you be as outraged as you are when I compare Jews to gangs?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Don't feel bad. Even hulking, brutish men cover their eyes when Ambigguy's words come knocking. No one should be ashamed of that.

 

[outhouse]

Okay, now you're just playing semantic games. The most basic definition of a Christian is a person who accepts Jesus Christ as the Savior and Messiah. They did that so...

Wrong again.

We have no idea if his real apostles even viewed him as anything other then "teacher"

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Wrong again.

We have no idea if his real apostles even viewed him as anything other then "teacher"

Whatever you say.

 

[metis]

I understand your perception.. But, Christians are a part of the Jewish community, by default. Muslims are a part of the Jewish community, by default. These are reactions to the action. Judaism concerns the entire Earth, to billions of people all over the Earth. Why? Because they've built their living foundations on Jewish history and morality.

Truth is.. doesn't matter what anyone's called. It matters what we do.

Sorry, but a "community" is a group with either a local or common identity, and Christians are simply not a part of that community as they have their own. Christianity evolved away from the Covenant and the Law over time, so it cannot claim to follow Judaism either. Therefore, no matter how one looks at it, Christian and Muslem gentiles are simply not Jews, except for those who were born Jews but converted out.

 

[Sleeppy]

Sorry, but a "community" is a group with either a local or common identity, and Christians are simply not a part of that community as they have their own. Christianity evolved away from the Covenant and the Law over time, so it cannot claim to follow Judaism either. Therefore, no matter how one looks at it, Christian and Muslem gentiles are simply not Jews, except for those who were born Jews but converted out.

I understand what a community is. We live in a global community, for several reasons, according to history, science, psychology, sociology, etc.. AND Jewish Scripture.

There is a Covenant concerning God and whom? The Law and whom? Everyone and everything, perhaps? We are referring to the Most High God? Creator, and Sustainer of all things, eternally?

You are able to acknowledge 'Jews' who separate wholly from religion, and God, and still mention a Covenant? And you don't understand that God's Covenant is all there is? Neither do many Jews, Christians, or Muslims. It is a very hard thing to understand, and I don't expect you to.

Jews will continue to expect Elijah; they don't have a full understanding of the importance in turning their own hearts to their own children. Christians will continue to expect Jesus; they have very little understanding of the causes to poverty, or terrorism. Muslims will continue to expect everything, from Muhammed, and Jesus, and Elijah. How could you understand? As blind as Isaiah was, even he understood that the servants of God are blind, and the messengers deaf.

 

[metis]

I understand what a community is. We live in a global community, for several reasons, according to history, science, psychology, sociology, etc.. AND Jewish Scripture.

There is a Covenant concerning God and whom? The Law and whom? Everyone and everything, perhaps? We are referring to the Most High God? Creator, and Sustainer of all things, eternally?

You are able to acknowledge 'Jews' who separate wholly from religion, and God, and still mention a Covenant? And you don't understand that God's Covenant is all there is? Neither do many Jews, Christians, or Muslims. It is a very hard thing to understand, and I don't expect you to.

Jews will continue to expect Elijah; they don't have a full understanding of the importance in turning their own hearts to their own children. Christians will continue to expect Jesus; they have very little understanding of the causes to poverty, or terrorism. Muslims will continue to expect everything, from Muhammed, and Jesus, and Elijah. How could you understand? As blind as Isaiah was, even he understood that the servants of God are blind, and the messengers deaf.

Because of the condescending remarks above (especially parts I underlined above), all discussions between you and I have just come to an end. I taught theology for many years, including teaching Christian theology to adults for 12 years and comparative religions for an additional two, and still do (I made a presentation just this afternoon in our Lunch & Learn program), and what you wrote above is terribly condescending plus just plain wrong.

Shalom & take care.

 

[Sleeppy]

Because of the condescending remarks above (especially parts I underlined above), all discussions between you and I have just come to an end. I taught theology for many years, including teaching Christian theology to adults for 12 years and comparative religions for an additional two, and still do (I made a presentation just this afternoon in our Lunch & Learn program), and what you wrote above is terribly condescending plus just plain wrong.

Shalom & take care.

I couldn't begin to even hope that I was wrong. The proof is all over the damned Earth!

You've taught theology and comparative religion. I'm assuming you understand that your knowledge is not absolute, and that it is founded by others like you? I'm assuming you've studied psychology and sociology? Did you also study the chemical nature of the brain? DNA? Evolution? History?... And you don't understand that "just plain wrong" is also condescending, and that it moves in both directions?

Teaching theology and comparative religions should mean what? What exactly did you teach? (Don't feel obligated to answer.)

 

[outhouse]

I couldn't begin to even hope that I was wrong.

But in the end you are wrong.

Christians are not part of the jewish community, period.


They were Hellenist who perverted the religion to meet their owm personal needs that developed into a national religion.

Because they used the OT as a foundation for their text DOES not make them part of Judaism or its people which is required to be part of said community.

You pervert the word "community" to meet your own theological needs.

Christians from the very beginning factually distanced themselves from Judaism on purpose.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

But in the end you are wrong.

Christians are not part of the jewish community, period.

Really, outhouse, you are not the final judge of who is or isn't a Jew... no more than the OP is.

Really. You're not.

 

[Sleeppy]

But in the end you are wrong.

Christians are not part of the jewish community, period.


They were Hellenist who perverted the religion to meet their owm personal needs that developed into a national religion.

Because they used the OT as a foundation for their text DOES not make them part of Judaism or its people which is required to be part of said community.

You pervert the word "community" to meet your own theological needs.

Christians from ther very beginning factually distanced themselves from Judaism on purpose.

I made no such perversion.

You hadn't noticed, but I was talking to a member of the "Jewish community", with (limited, but present) knowledge of Jewish Scripture, culture, and history. Hence, the internet we are currently using is referred to as an "online community". Sociology, science, history, evolution, economics, theology.. ect. etc. - anything you could possibly list - these are all a apart of what is referred to as our "global community". The Jewish community is, and has been, a major contributor to the "global community" for sometime. Christians and Muslims result directly, and indirectly, from the Jewish theology and practice, which preceded them.

 

[outhouse]

Really, outhouse, you are not the final judge of who is or isn't a Jew... no more than the OP is.

Really. You're not.

Comprehensive issues again?


Sleepy's statement had little to do with the definition or qualifications of Judaism


Metis was correct.

 

[outhouse]

I made no such perversion.

You hadn't noticed, but I was talking to a member of the "Jewish community", with (limited, but present) knowledge of Jewish Scripture, culture, and history. Hence, the internet we are currently using is referred to as an "online community". Sociology, science, history, evolution, economics, theology.. ect. etc. - anything you could possibly list - these are all a apart of what is referred to as our "global community". The Jewish community is, and has been, a major contributor to the "global community" for sometime. Christians and Muslims result directly, and indirectly, from the Jewish theology and practice, which preceded them.

Well at least you admit to being wrong.

Since the creation of the NT christians have purposely tried to distance themselves from Judaism. This is a fact.