I think this answers all the questions - Who really is a Jew?

[crossfire]

I'll continue to oppose tribalism wherever I encounter it. My God abhors it.

Do you oppose rivalry between sports teams? That can become quite tribalistic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

YOU do not know that.

YOu might not be correct.

Many of the first Christians were Gentiles and Poselytes to Judaism.

By the time this sect was labeled as Christian they were not Jews.


Remember, this was a failed movement in Judaism and Israel. It flourished in the Diaspora, This is why we dont have a single Hebrew text and only Hellenized text [Koine greek]

Er, I'm going by what it says in the Bible. Jesus' first followers were Jewish according to the Gospels and Acts and then after He Ascended to Heaven, they started their mission to Gentiles. Although, there were some Gentiles who realized Who Christ really was during His lifetime, such as the Roman centurion. But it was a primarily Jewish movement at first.

 

[outhouse]

But it was a primarily Jewish movement at first.

Jesus movement was Jewish. But his movement died with him.


After Passover the attendants took the legends and mythology back home with them through out the Diaspora.


What part of the movement failed in Judaism don't you understand?

Er, I'm going by what it says in the Bible

Im going with what history actually tells us.


The bible says many things about Jesus we know are no where near accurate.

Jesus' first followers were Jewish according to the Gospels and Acts

All though Acts is not reliable, Jesus first followers were Jewish.


TO bad they had nothing to do with what would become Christianity.


This movement flourished in the Diaspora, it did not in Israel and did absolutely nothing in Galilee. Had the Jewish movement continued after Jesus death we would have witnessed the movement flourish in Galilee. Instead there is nothing at all to report.


Think about it

The movement went crazy by different people that never knew or heard or witnessed him ever. People who lived out of Israel. this happened in a very short time period.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Jesus movement was Jewish. But his movement died with him.


After Passover the attendants took the legends and mythology back home with them through out the Diaspora.


What part of the movement failed in Judaism don't you understand?





Im going with what history actually tells us.


The bible says many things about Jesus we know are no where near accurate.




All though Acts is not reliable, Jesus first followers were Jewish.


TO bad they had nothing to do with what would become Christianity.


This movement flourished in the Diaspora, it did not in Israel and did absolutely nothing in Galilee. Had the Jewish movement continued after Jesus death we would have witnessed the movement flourish in Galilee. Instead there is nothing at all to report.


Think about it

The movement went crazy by different people that never knew or heard or witnessed him ever. People who lived out of Israel. this happened in a very short time period.

I don't see what any of that has to do with my original comment. I just said that His first followers were Jewish and you're going off on a rant about what happened after.

 

[roger1440]

The Original Way

Paul said, "Romans 2:28, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Why would he say that? It sounds like he thinks being a Jew is a good thing. In fact, he calls himself a Jew. What we need to decide is whether Paul is making an important point or just polishing his halo. If he is making a point of being Jewish there will be other scriptures that make the same point and other circumstances explained by that point. It turns out we don't have far to look to find a credible speaker and this time it's the King of the universe talking to the woman at the well.

St. John 4:22, "You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

This sounds like He means you have to be Jewish to be saved. Or, does He mean salvation is wrapped up with the Jews because He is the chief Jew? Or, perhaps the only method of salvation is the one given to the priests in the Temple.

Let's look. He did say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." So, He could not have meant that salvation was by any process at the Temple, because He had already changed that. If He meant it was because He is the chief Jew, He would not have said, Jews, meaning a lot of people. But, What if He meant a group of people like those Paul referred to, a group of people who are Jews because of their faith in the spirit but not necessarily in the flesh? This suggests He means the very same thing as Paul. The Lord also said,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

That would explain how there can be a Jewish Bride for The Lord to finish the wedding. It also explains how all Israel will be saved because the Bride is Israel. It would also explain what The Lord said in Revelation.

Rev 2:9,"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."
Revelation 3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you."

If being Jewish had anything to do with bloodline it wouldn't matter what they said. They would still be Jews. The only way someone could lie about being a Jew is if being Jewish is a matter of faith. All believers know there is only one faith, one path and one family of God and it appears to be the people who are called by the Lord's Name.
The Jews beginning came at the mountain that burned with fire where there was a marriage ceremony. There, they took the name of the Bridegroom as in our custom today. Difference is, In those days taking the name comes at the start of the engagement, not the cohabitation. Between a man and woman the cohabitation or consummation came a year later. Between God and man it's much longer but is still called the Consummation, where the two parties become one family and live together. This becomes even more conspicuous when we look at the Hebrew name for God and the name of the people 'called by His Name'.
It's a bit of a reach to pronounce, יהוה, Jehovah. The yod י carries the 'Je', but there is no 'Ho' because without an O the 'hay' ה is silent. Next is the vav ו pronounced, 'Vah', with the vowel qamets וָ , then another silent 'hay', making - YehVah. However, using different vowels it should be translated, Yehu, which happens to match the name for Jews in Hebrew, the Yehudim.

יְהוּה - Yey Hoo

While the word - Yehudim, יְהוּדִּים means Jews, the dim, דִּים, means 'those of', therefore, 'those of God'. In turn, it makes the scripture accurate that says, 'My people who are called by My Name'. Of course this happened thousands of years before any other nation got this information or English was invented. Trying to convince us all that the whole nation is called by the name of Judah, one of the tribes, appears to be a deception.
​

The mountain that burned with fire or Mount Sinai in Arabia, was renamed by the Arabs, Jabal al Laws. Google that, it still has black on top and you can see it using Google earth.
When God gave the ten commandments to Moses, one of them said,

Exodus 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain." and later...
Pro 30:9 "Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain."

This commandment has nothing to do with using bad language. The first scripture is the rule, the second is an example of breaking it by not keeping His commandment and thereby taking His name in vain or being called by His name without living by His standards. There was no reason to attach another punishment for cursing God since that already existed.

Today, we are no less wedding guests just because we were not the first to be invited. We are no less olive branches because we were grafted into the olive tree and we are no less Jews because we are His second Bride.

Ron Cash

Do I understand you correctly? You are using Christian scripture to explain what a Jew is.:help:

 

[Tarheeler]

Do I understand you correctly? You are using Christian scripture to explain what a Jew is.:help:

Yeah, that was my reaction as well.

 

[Sunstone]

Do I understand you correctly? You are using Christian scripture to explain what a Jew is.:help:

Yeah, that was my reaction as well.

Mine too, except I combined my intellectual disbelief with two days of heavy drinking.

 

[Tumah]

Mine too, except I combined my intellectual disbelief with two days of heavy drinking.

Did it help?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Do you oppose rivalry between sports teams? That can become quite tribalistic.

Oh, yes indeed. That seems even more primitive than groups based on ethnicity.

Groups marching through English streets shouting team slogans and fighting with groups supporting 'foreign' teams? Who couldn't see that as primitive?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

9 pages ...

 

[outhouse]

I don't see what any of that has to do with my original comment. I just said that His first followers were Jewish and you're going off on a rant about what happened after.

You said the first Christians were Jewish. You were wrong, they were Jews.


The first Christians did not exist until long after Jesus death, and they grew from gentiles and Proselytes in the Diaspora.

That was my only point. The first members were never Christians.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You said the first Christians were Jewish. You were wrong, they were Jews.

The first Christians did not exist until long after Jesus death, and they grew from gentiles and Proselytes in the Diaspora.

That was my only point. The first members were never Christians.

You're making my head spin, man. We should probably start a thread about 'Who really is a Christian?'

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

9 pages ...

That's nothing. The last thread we had about Who really is an atheist? ran to some jillion pages or more. We've hardly scratched the surface of Who really is a Jew?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You said the first Christians were Jewish. You were wrong, they were Jews.


The first Christians did not exist until long after Jesus death, and they grew from gentiles and Proselytes in the Diaspora.

That was my only point. The first members were never Christians.

Okay, now you're just playing semantic games. The most basic definition of a Christian is a person who accepts Jesus Christ as the Savior and Messiah. They did that so...

 

[Flankerl]

By the way, what is this 'us' business? Don't you recognize a Jewish brother?

A jewish brother that rejects basic tenets of judaism? Oh my.

Yeah, I love Jews who know nothing about the fundamentals of Judaism. It reminds me of gentiles who haven't even read the bylaws of gentilism.

I dont know anything about the fundamentals of Judaism? Oh please tell me more.

Sorry. I understand that you prefer any criticism of Judaism to come from ignorant bigots, but I can't help you there.

Oh, come on out and play with me. Nothing to gain by hiding in the bushes.

Nonsense. If it didn't matter to you, you wouldn't attack me when I criticize tribalism.

Ah yes if you answer to something it matters to you. Lets all hop onto the illogical train.

Sure I will. The Jews, the Crips, the Pashtuns... their boundaries will fade away a little sooner because of the voices which are raised against tribalism.

Very intelligent to compare ethnoreligious groups with street gangs. Not bad. :clap

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

A jewish brother that rejects basic tenets of judaism? Oh my.

Indeed not. You are the one who rejects the basic tenets of Judaism. I am here to try and bring you back to the old ways. I understand that modern heresies about Jewishness will control the reality of modern 'Jews' indoctrinated to believe in them, but there is no need for anyone to remain confused about their Jewishness.

Am I not here to answer all your questions?

I dont know anything about the fundamentals of Judaism?

Hey, I only report what I see. Sorry if it upsets.

There is some argumentation from a person who is not confused about the fundamentals, I guess.

Lets all hop onto the illogical train.

And more of it.

Very intelligent to compare ethnoreligious groups with street gangs. Not bad. :clap

And more.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know how to counter illogical argumentation. I guess you'll have to ride that train on without me. But thanks for the invitation.

 

[metis]

As I have just read the OP, I do have to say that it's really quite bogus since being a "Jew" is a nationality and not a religion. There are atheistic and non-theistic Jews, Jews who belong to other faiths, and Jews who do practice Judaism. Becoming a Jew by becoming a Christian makes about as much sense as becoming Italian by eating borscht.

 

[Sleeppy]

As I have just read the OP, I do have to say that it's really quite bogus since being a "Jew" is a nationality and not a religion. There are atheistic and non-theistic Jews, Jews who belong to other faiths, and Jews who do practice Judaism. Becoming a Jew by becoming a Christian makes about as much sense as becoming Italian by eating borscht.

Except you and other Jews must acknowledge that Judaism, in it's Scriptures, define Jews in varying manners, of which, most or all include God.

We're reaping what was sown for us.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

As I have just read the OP, I do have to say that it's really quite bogus since being a "Jew" is a nationality and not a religion. There are atheistic and non-theistic Jews, Jews who belong to other faiths, and Jews who do practice Judaism. Becoming a Jew by becoming a Christian makes about as much sense as becoming Italian by eating borscht.

I agree about the bogusity of the OP, but I have heard Jews vehemently deny that a Jew can convert to Christianity and retain his Jewishness. Lots of Jews seem to hold that position, at least in my experience. Do you agree with it?

 

[metis]

Except you and other Jews must acknowledge that Judaism, in it's Scriptures, define Jews in varying manners, of which, most or all include God.

We're reaping what was sown for us.

Jews are "Jews" either through birth or conversion, but the conversion part has to be through a bet din (Jewish court), and this is because one whom is seeking to becoming part of the Jewish community. A person who converts to Christianity simply is not becoming part of the Jewish community.