I thought Islam was smart. What were they thinking?

[Greatest I am]

The message is not true but evil, single minded, and deceitful.

Which particular part of the message are you referring to?
Please, no all encompassing reply like the above. I want to know your thoughts.

Are any of the points that protect women sound?

Regards
DL

 

[TashaN]

I think you know the answer.

I recognize that Islam was perhaps the main target for Van Gogh ....

If one would forget that Islam were Van Gogh’s target and dress the production in secular colors .....

 

[ProudMuslim]

I believe we are mixing two issues here and we need to differentiate:

1) Do i think the movie (from the reviews, i didnt watch it) was unbiased and meant to tackle women mistreatment in a secular context? No. The movie was clearly attacking Islam and attempts to depict it as a monstrous cult which encourages women subjugation.

2) Do we condone the murder of Van Gogh? No we don't. The vast majority of Muslims will not commit such an act. Or at least let's put in a religious framework, does Islam permits the man's killing? No it doesn't. In Islam death penalty is allowed only in limited circumstances such as murder.

 

[Greatest I am]

I believe we are mixing two issues here and we need to differentiate:

1) Do i think the movie (from the reviews, i didnt watch it) was unbiased and meant to tackle women mistreatment in a secular context? No. The movie was clearly attacking Islam and attempts to depict it as a monstrous cult which encourages women subjugation.

2) Do we condone the murder of Van Gogh? No we don't. The vast majority of Muslims will not commit such an act. Or at least let's put in a religious framework, does Islam permits the man's killing? No it doesn't. In Islam death penalty is allowed only in limited circumstances such as murder.

Why did you not watch it?

As to your last.
I know that most would not do the act but way too many would condone it. That is why Fundamentals hurt their mother religions.

As to murder, did the majority of Islam not want Salmond Rushdie dead as well as all others that dare attack Islam or the prophet?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I think you know the answer.

Go away if this is your best.

Regards
DL

 

[ProudMuslim]

Why did you not watch it?

As to your last.
I know that most would not do the act but way too many would condone it. That is why Fundamentals hurt their mother religions.

As to murder, did the majority of Islam not want Salmond Rushdie dead as well as all others that dare attack Islam or the prophet?

Regards
DL

As for your first question i just did not watch it because i am not expecting anything intellectual, objective or mindblowing coming out of it. I'm a female and i will definitely be inflamed to see how those women were mistreated and to accuse Islam of that will be like adding salt to the wound! If the documentary was about women subjugation in a secular context or perhaps if it least it showed that most Muslims condemn such acts that occur in some of their societies it would've been different. But i know the intention of Van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali who didn't hide their anti-Islam senitiments.

I might watch it just to feed my curiosity, what kind of anti-Islam cheap shots they have incoporated in their documentary. But like i said it definitely won't get my apology or shake my confidence in Islam.

As for the second question, well before answering that i would like to adjust your phrase. Islam is a religion, an adherent of Islam is a Muslim. So back to your question, did the majority of Muslims wanted Salman Rushdie dead? well we are talking about 1.2 billion Muslims in the world i think if the majority wanted him dead he would be dead by now, don't you agree? Honestly i just think the majority didn't really care about him and many opposed the fatwa announced by the late Ayatullah Khomeni.

Now fundamentalists,i prefer to call them "violent extremists" of all religions are the worst enemies of their own religions and Islam is no different. But there is no verse in Qur'an that recommend Muslims to kill an individual who verbally insult the Prophet of Islam. In fact we know that neither Jews nor Christians believe in Muhammed (Peace be upon him) and in fact many consider him "blasphemous" but we still aren't allowed to kill them, in fact we ought to respect them even marriage is permitted with Christian/Jew females. War in Islam is only the last resort and its waged as self-defense and capital punishment is only allowed in cases such as intentional murder. In fact i can't think of any other crime in Quran that is punished with death.

 

[Greatest I am]

As for your first question i just did not watch it because i am not expecting anything intellectual, objective or mindblowing coming out of it. I'm a female and i will definitely be inflamed to see how those women were mistreated and to accuse Islam of that will be like adding salt to the wound! If the documentary was about women subjugation in a secular context or perhaps if it least it showed that most Muslims condemn such acts that occur in some of their societies it would've been different. But i know the intention of Van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali who didn't hide their anti-Islam senitiments.

I might watch it just to feed my curiosity, what kind of anti-Islam cheap shots they have incoporated in their documentary. But like i said it definitely won't get my apology or shake my confidence in Islam.

As for the second question, well before answering that i would like to adjust your phrase. Islam is a religion, an adherent of Islam is a Muslim. So back to your question, did the majority of Muslims wanted Salman Rushdie dead? well we are talking about 1.2 billion Muslims in the world i think if the majority wanted him dead he would be dead by now, don't you agree? Honestly i just think the majority didn't really care about him and many opposed the fatwa announced by the late Ayatullah Khomeni.

Now fundamentalists,i prefer to call them "violent extremists" of all religions are the worst enemies of their own religions and Islam is no different. But there is no verse in Qur'an that recommend Muslims to kill an individual who verbally insult the Prophet of Islam. In fact we know that neither Jews nor Christians believe in Muhammed (Peace be upon him) and in fact many consider him "blasphemous" but we still aren't allowed to kill them, in fact we ought to respect them even marriage is permitted with Christian/Jew females. War in Islam is only the last resort and its waged as self-defense and capital punishment is only allowed in cases such as intentional murder. In fact i can't think of any other crime in Quran that is punished with death.

They seem to kill Gays without much problems, then again Christians as well discriminate without cause. lslam follows in this. Right?

BTW the film gives lessons in morals that are good for all peoples.

Regards
DL

 

[ProudMuslim]

They seem to kill Gays without much problems, then again Christians as well discriminate without cause. lslam follows in this. Right?

BTW the film gives lessons in morals that are good for all peoples.

Regards
DL

Who's "they"? I live in an Islamic country, although i dont believe there is any country that follows the true teachings of Islam, but our gays are not put to death they are put in rehab where they should be in my opinion. The only reference to homosexuality in the Qur'an is the folk of 'Lot' who along with their homosexuality they violated many laws so they were cursed and punished by God. Although homosexuality is condemned in Islam but there is no punishment specified in the Qur'an against homosexuals. So again the killing of homosexuals is not in comply with Islamic Law which can be found all in the Qur'an. I am not here defending the acts of some Muslims, i am defending the Quran and Islam.

As for this documentary, there are many other documantries that tackled the same issue without screaming for hatred for any religion.

 

[Greatest I am]

Who's "they"? I live in an Islamic country, although i dont believe there is any country that follows the true teachings of Islam, but our gays are not put to death they are put in rehab where they should be in my opinion. The only reference to homosexuality in the Qur'an is the folk of 'Lot' who along with their homosexuality they violated many laws so they were cursed and punished by God. Although homosexuality is condemned in Islam but there is no punishment specified in the Qur'an against homosexuals. So again the killing of homosexuals is not in comply with Islamic Law which can be found all in the Qur'an. I am not here defending the acts of some Muslims, i am defending the Quran and Islam.

As for this documentary, there are many other documantries that tackled the same issue without screaming for hatred for any religion.

Rehab for Gays?

LOL

Can rehab change a God given nature? No.

Why, are you homophobic?

Regards
DL

 

[ProudMuslim]

Rehab for Gays?

LOL

Can rehab change a God given nature? No.

Why, are you homophobic?

Regards
DL

I know that science does not support the claim that homosexuality is genetics. So why do you say it is a God-given nature? There is nothing natural about it.

I am not homophobic, i don't hate homosexuals but i do find homosexuality abnormal. I believe there is a reason why we were created different, each creature is programmed to be fulfilling his/her gender-oriented roles.

 

[Greatest I am]

I know that science does not support the claim that homosexuality is genetics. So why do you say it is a God-given nature? There is nothing natural about it.

I am not homophobic, i don't hate homosexuals but i do find homosexuality abnormal. I believe there is a reason why we were created different, each creature is programmed to be fulfilling his/her gender-oriented roles.

If you believe that God is our creator then He creates our natures.
Why then would he create a Gay nature and soul if these were not to be followed.

Are Gays not following their programmed gender-oriented roles?
If not then what are they following?

What exactly is abnormal for Gays born of normal parents?

Regards
DL

 

[Zhakir]

If you believe that God is our creator then He creates our natures.
Why then would he create a Gay nature and soul if these were not to be followed.

Are Gays not following their programmed gender-oriented roles?
If not then what are they following?

What exactly is abnormal for Gays born of normal parents?

Regards
DL

Never red the Quran before? that explains it
This life is a test for the hereafter
Quran 91:7-10
By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it;And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;-Truly he succeeds that purifies it,And he fails that corrupts it!
76:2-6
Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight.We showed him the Way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful (rests on his will).For the Rejecters we have prepared chains, yokes, and a blazing Fire.As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Kafur,-A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance.
90:8-10
Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-And a tongue, and a pair of lips?-
And shown him the two highways?

 

[Greatest I am]

Never red the Quran before? that explains it
This life is a test for the hereafter
Quran 91:7-10
By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it;And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;-Truly he succeeds that purifies it,And he fails that corrupts it!
76:2-6
Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight.We showed him the Way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful (rests on his will).For the Rejecters we have prepared chains, yokes, and a blazing Fire.As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Kafur,-A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance.
90:8-10
Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-And a tongue, and a pair of lips?-
And shown him the two highways?

I could not believe in a god who give one value to male souls and a lesser value to female souls and lesser value to Gay souls.

God creates all souls with equal value. Just like humans.

Regards
DL

 

[Zhakir]

I could not believe in a god who give one value to male souls and a lesser value to female souls and lesser value to Gay souls.

God creates all souls with equal value. Just like humans.

Regards
DL

Read them again,God creates all souls with equal value,but shows them the two ways.
Quran 91:7-10
By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it;And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;-Truly he succeeds that purifies it,And he fails that corrupts it!
76:2-6
Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight.We showed him the Way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful (rests on his will).For the Rejecters we have prepared chains, yokes, and a blazing Fire.As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Kafur,-A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance.
90:8-10
Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-And a tongue, and a pair of lips?-
And shown him the two highways?

 

[Greatest I am]

Read them again,God creates all souls with equal value,but shows them the two ways.

If they start with equal value then how does it happen that no female soul in heaven has, seven is it, male virgins?

Why is it always the male souls that reap this reward.

What do Gay souls in heaven get by the way? Seven Gay virgins?

Regards
DL

 

[Zhakir]

If they start with equal value then how does it happen that no female soul in heaven has, seven is it, male virgins?

Why is it always the male souls that reap this reward.

What do Gay souls in heaven get by the way? Seven Gay virgins?

Regards
DL

Changing the supject?
There are many Quranic verses and hadith dealing with both men and women of jannah.
I see that you realize that from an islamic prespective people aren't created with homosexual nature but every body is shown the two ways of good and evil (read the verses)
so realize that i never uesd word "gay soul" to you to ask such question is meaningless.

 

[Greatest I am]

Changing the supject?
There are many Quranic verses and hadith dealing with both men and women of jannah.
I see that you realize that from an islamic prespective people aren't created with homosexual nature but every body is shown the two ways of good and evil (read the verses)
so realize that i never uesd word "gay soul" to you to ask such question is meaningless.

I see you did not even try to answer those simple questions. I do not blame you for being uncomfortable with the answer.

A poor representation of your religion.

As far as changing subjects, I do not recall you even speaking to the OP.

I do know a bit about your Bible though. I understand it equates women, dogs and donkeys as being of the same value. Quite enlightening.

Regards
DL

 

[.lava]

I do know a bit about your Bible though. I understand it equates women, dogs and donkeys as being of the same value. Quite enlightening.

Regards
DL

would you please explain what you're talking about? what do you mean 'your' Bible? and who says women and donkeys have the same value? is it a donkey who says that? then that would be a little understandable.

.

 

[ProudMuslim]

If they start with equal value then how does it happen that no female soul in heaven has, seven is it, male virgins?

Why is it always the male souls that reap this reward.

What do Gay souls in heaven get by the way? Seven Gay virgins?

Regards
DL

Who said no female soul will have male virgins?

And there is no such thing as 'gay soul'.

 

[Zhakir]

I see you did not even try to answer those simple questions. I do not blame you for being uncomfortable with the answer.

A poor representation of your religion.

As far as changing subjects, I do not recall you even speaking to the OP.

I do know a bit about your Bible though. I understand it equates women, dogs and donkeys as being of the same value. Quite enlightening.

Regards
DL

I proved that you got the islamic point of view wrongly,and gave the reply to your claims.
And you just keep on changing the subject,what does the bible have to do with any thing?!..