I worry about the children of religious parents.

[suzy smith]

Nice of you to say that OB.

JW's try to teach their kids to be responsible human beings and to put into practise the things they have taught them from the Bible. If they choose to retain those beliefs, and form their own bond with God, that is all well and good, but if they don't, that is their prerogative, but its heartbreaking all the same.

They teach there children that Adam and eve, the flood, the virgin birth, in fact just about everything in the bible is to be taken literally. Yep, even a talking snake.
Now go online and read all the accounts of children growing up and then trying to leave this sect.
Its not so bad in the U.K. But in other parts of the world it means being ostracized by their J.W. family.[disfelowshiped] There are even support sites for ex J.W.s

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that religious abuse is real. However, it is also traditional, and traditional things are almost never thought of as abusive by most people. Our blindness to the full significance of traditions seems to me why the cultural practice of female genital mutilation so easily persists in some cultures, and why the religious practices of teaching kids they will burn in hell for eternity persists in some other cultures. Because it's traditional, people don't recognize the magnitude of it. At least, that's my take on it.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Really? Since when? Maybe things are different where you live, but legitimate cases of child abuse involve:
Physical abuse (aka, non-accidental injury)
Neglect (aka, failure to provide basic survival needs like food, water, clothing, and shelter)
Sexual abuse (aka, child pornography among other things)
Emotional abuse (aka, observable changes in behavior and cognition diagnosable as clinical mental illnesses)
Parental substance abuse (aka, exposing child to drugs by parent's use)
Abandonment (aka, leaving child unattended)

You should read the horror stories of good parents who have had to deal with CPS, because what the CPS considers child abuse is much more mundane.

Anyway, as far as the OP is concerned, I think it's important to teach children critical thinking skills. If this leads one away from the religion of their parents, so be it. Like others have pointed out, good intentions, such as trying to keep one's kids out of hell, isn't really all that good if it causes mental and emotional damage, which is sometimes does. Ignorance is not bliss, in any way, shape, or form.

My kids attend a fundamentalist Christian church with their grandparents. I'm not thrilled with the idea, but it's what they want for now. If they change their mind, great, if they don't, it's their choice. But I try to make it a point to teach them of other world views now, so that when they're older, they don't suffer from the mentality that there's only one way of viewing things. I make it a point to let them know that I'm a Buddhist, and that my world view sometimes differs from their grandparents' views, but that it's their choice which they believe. I also try to teach them to think for themselves, and apply that to everything they see and hear and experience.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It seems to me that religious abuse is real. However, it is also traditional, and traditional things are almost never thought of as abusive by most people. Our blindness to the full significance of traditions seems to me why the cultural practice of female genital mutilation so easily persists in some cultures, and why the religious practices of teaching kids they will burn in hell for eternity persists in some other cultures. Because it's traditional, people don't recognize the magnitude of it. At least, that's my take on it.

Not to mention male genital mutilation (aka routine infant circumcision).

But you're totally right. It's like how people spank/beat their kids and everyone defends it because it's so prevalent in society and has gone on for generations. It's madness!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Not to mention male genital mutilation (aka routine infant circumcision).

But you're totally right. It's like how people spank/beat their kids and everyone defends it because it's so prevalent in society and has gone on for generations. It's madness!

Yeah, these are two that really get me. I have two boys, and neither one of them are circumcised. And as much as it bothers me, it bothers my wife even more so. And we've been looked down upon here in the great Christian midwest because of it. It's weird, and sad.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, these are two that really get me. I have two boys, and neither one of them are circumcised. And as much as it bothers me, it bothers my wife even more so. And we've been looked down upon here in the great Christian midwest because of it. It's weird, and sad.

I'm sorry to hear that. But Midwesterners aren't known for tolerance and intelligence. Anyway, good on you and your wife as parents. Out West, most males are intact, interestingly. If I ever have a son, I'm leaving his penis alone. It's not my body.

 

[rusra02]

I worry about the children of atheistic parents, as well as those who believe false teachings, such as hellfire. But ultimately, I believe the right, authority, and responsibility according to the Bible for parents to teach their children comes from our Creator. (Ephesians 6:4) Parents are thus responsible before God to teach their children the truth, and God holds parents accountable for their child's life, until the child is old enough to make his own choices.(Deuteronomy 6:4-7)

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry to hear that. But Midwesterners aren't known for tolerance and intelligence.

That's a consequence of living near Ohio State.
Things are much better up here in Michiganistan.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's a consequence of living near Ohio State.
Things are much better up here in Michiganistan.

LOL. OSU is supposed to be such a great school, too. However, it's not the students I'm thinking of.

 

[Revoltingest]

LOL. OSU is supposed to be such a great school, too. However, it's not the students I'm thinking of.

I suppose Ohio State is a good school.....if one can't get into a real university.
But seriously, you might feel more at home up here.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I suppose Ohio State is a good school.....if one can't get into a real university.
But seriously, you might feel more at home up here.

Dude, I'm a Californian. That's my real home that I need to go back to. Lol.

 

[Revoltingest]

Dude, I'm a Californian. That's my real home that I need to go back to. Lol.

I kin tell by yer accent!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I kin tell by yer accent!

Haha. Sadly, I've mostly lost my Cali accent. Sometimes I sound like a mixture of Ohioan and Southern.

 

[McBell]

this isnt to say that I think her belief is right, because i dont, But imagine if her belief was right....then it would be very wrong of her not to teach her children that belief because if its true, then they should know about it.

In some way, parents who hold such beliefs are doing what they believe is best for their child. They dont want their child to end up in such a fate which is a loving gesture even if it is misguided.


All parents love their children and strive to do the best they can. And hopefully, when the child is grown old enough, he will search out these things for himself and come to a more accurate knowledge of truth.

Pascals Wager?

 

[McBell]

Sadly, most people know very little about the religion they profuse to believe in, at least when it comes to Christians. When asked, many Christians can’t define what a Christian is. A great number of so called Christians believe they are Christians simply because their parents believed they were Christians. My understanding of Christianity is that it not inherited like freckles or a large nose from our parents. Many children believe they are Christian because they receive Christmas presents on Christmas morning and an Easter basket on Easter. Being born in a Christian home does not make a person a Christian any more than being born in a tree make a person a bird. Christianity is a religion of faith. Without faith there is no Christian. The first question a Christian must be able to answer is, “faith is what?” This can only be answered by study. The addition of fellowship helps one sustain their faith and hopefully grow. I’m not promoting Christianity; I’m simply saying one should know what they believe in, regardless of what that may be. A catechism that focuses on the threat of hell fire unless one has the right beliefs is no catechism at all.

This is a nice little piece, but what does it have to do with the OP?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

this isnt to say that I think her belief is right, because i dont, But imagine if her belief was right....then it would be very wrong of her not to teach her children that belief because if its true, then they should know about it.

In some way, parents who hold such beliefs are doing what they believe is best for their child. They dont want their child to end up in such a fate which is a loving gesture even if it is misguided.

Here's the thing, though: if a parent is going to put limitations on their children out of fear for their safety, doesn't the parent have a responsibility to ensure that those fears are well-founded?

If a parent is denying opportunities to their child for reasons that they can't be bothered to figure out are valid, then do they really have the best interests of the child at heart?

As an analogy, I think it's reasonable to keep power tools completely away from younger children and (when they're old enough) only allow older children to use them under supervision... but I can also demonstrate why this is a good idea: I can show what a table saw does to a piece of wood, which creates implications for what it would do to a person. If a religious parent is steering them away from other faiths to the same degree that I would keep a child away from power tools, then wouldn't it be rather hypocritical of them if they can't do a similarly compelling demonstration for why the limits they place on their child are good?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A few years ago, I was at a dinner party having a conversation with a couple, both cops, that really changed my views about religious influences in parenting.

The conversation had turned to parenting (not religious parenting, just parenting in general), and the husband started talking about lessons he'd taken away from his time as a cop (about 20 years at that point, IIRC). He said that he saw a common thread in almost every case he had to deal with where a teenager was victimized: the teen realized they were in a bad situation that was getting worse, but didn't think that they could call their parents for help and instead tried to get out of it themselves.

He told the people there that the best advice he could give to parents was to make sure that their children are never afraid to come to them with anything... that they should know that whatever happens, they'll be supported and protected.

Later on, I got to thinking about what sorts of things would make a child afraid to go to their parents when they need help, and I realized that most of them are much more likely to be issues in religious families than non-religious: homosexuality, alcohol consumption, premarital sex, etc.

While the degree to which a parent will try to impose religious ideas on their children does vary from religion to religion (and from parent to parent), I think that in general, it's fairly safe to say that the more a parent tries to impose beliefs and non-negotiable standards of behaviour on their child, the more this encourages a lack of willingness on the part of the child to share their life with the parent. And - for the reasons I just touched on - I think that the less open a child is with their parents, the greater risk of harm to the child.

And not only is there the risk of physical harm, it can be very distressing to a child to think that their "true" self wouldn't be accepted by their parents. I can't remember how many times I've heard stories from closeted atheist teens in religious homes in real anguish over the issue.

... and this occurs in very mainstream religious families. Even run-of-the-mill religious obligations like making the kids pray every day and go to church every Sunday can become downright oppressive if the child doesn't believe in the religion being forced on them.

 

[dawny0826]

If I taught my children at an early age that the bogy man was going to come and take my children away and kill them slowly over an open fire if they were not good and the authorities found out about it my children could be taken from me and I could be arrested for child abuse. And rightly so.

I have a friend that is a roman catholic. We are good friends and I was delighted when after a lot of trying she finally became pregnant and gave birth to a little boy. But as soon as he could talk and begin to understand what his mother was telling him she started teaching him the beliefs of ‘the church’
What is so relevant to my point here is that the only reason she believed in the roman catholic church was because her mother was a roman catholic. No other reason whatsoever! And now he believes in hellfire too?
The reason why I feel so strongly about this is watching that lovely little boy myself as he grew up. Before my own eyes I watched him till he was seven years old and completely indoctrinated into the chinch without once being shown any logical reason for his beliefs.
I would never accuse her or any religious parent of child abuse……but sometimes I have to hold myself back a bit.

I teach my children to think for themselves. I am proud of that.

Own up! Don't front as if you haven't accused your friend of abusing her child. You have.

And I suppose the rest of us are supposed to give you a standing ovation and applaud you for your superior parenting skills over that of your friend?

You're entitled to your opinion over that which you think your friend is doing wrong in regards to her parenting style, but for the love of all that is honest and decent...talk to her about this to her FACE, since you're so concerned about how her child is faring in comparison to you own.

If she's made such grave mistakes in her parenting in comparison to you, I would think as a friend, you're doing her a grave disservice by not bringing this to her attention.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Own up! Don't front as if you haven't accused your friend of abusing her child. You have.

And I suppose the rest of us are supposed to give you a standing ovation and applaud you for your superior parenting skills over that of your friend?

What gives you the impression the OP is looking for recognition or flattery, rather than discussion?

You're entitled to your opinion over that which you think your friend is doing wrong in relation to her parenting style, but for the love of all that is honest and decent...talk to her about this to her FACE, since you're so concerned about her child, why don't you?

Probably not a brilliant idea. If there is ONE thing that people are more sensitive about than their religion, it is their children and their parenting methods.

While you're at it, share with her, how you are so much better of a parent because your children are thinking for themselves, please. Explain to her how she's screwed up and should have been more like YOU, should have abandoned her beliefs, her faith and that which she felt was important to follow in YOUR footsteps.

Go for it! After all, you know what's best.

Hmm, rather than throw a temper tantrum, why not respond like an adult and say what is wrong with her post?

As it happens, the OP strikes me as eminently reasonable- and given how typical reactions like yours are on this particular subject, relatively courageous as well- takes some cajones to touch this subject, and for the most part, the OP is right.

 

[suzy smith]

Own up! Don't front as if you haven't accused your friend of abusing her child. You have.

And I suppose the rest of us are supposed to give you a standing ovation and applaud you for your superior parenting skills over that of your friend?

You're entitled to your opinion over that which you think your friend is doing wrong in regards to her parenting style, but for the love of all that is honest and decent...talk to her about this to her FACE, since you're so concerned about how her child is faring in comparison to her own.

If she's made such grave mistakes in her parenting in comparison to you, I would think as a friend, you're doing her a grave disservice by not bringing this to her attention.

Yes I did talk to her and as friends we can do that without throwing a hissy fit [unlike some people]
Do I think I have superior parenting skills? I leave my children to find out the truth about religion for themselves. Others indoctrinate into their children superstitions without any scientific proof whatsoever, flies in the face of all that is logical and adversely affects their future life.
I leave the reader to make his own mind up as to who is the superior parent.
Why do some people presume something about you and then have a go at you about it? :sarcastic