Identical symbolism in Non-Abrahami and Abrahamic Scriptures

[InvestigateTruth]

What, exactly, do you think the speaker is trying to communicate?

He is teaching that there are spiritual qualities that through power of God, these spiritual qualities are revived. He is asking God to quicken His Spirit. In a simpler way 'My God quicken me' is the same as 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong'.

 

[Audie]

He is teaching that there are spiritual qualities that through power of God, these spiritual qualities are revived. He is asking God to quicken His Spirit. In a simpler way 'My God quicken me' is the same as 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong'.

What is a spiritual quality?

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is a continuation of other threads about evidence of Oneness of Source of Inspiration in great World Religions.
In addition to teaching identical morality, There are very specific and Rare Symbolic Expressions, which is found only in the Scriptures of Great Religions.
Here, as the first example, a list of Quotes, containing the Symbolic Quickening of the dead:


"And on another occasion the Blessed One dwelt at Savatthi in the Jetavana, the garden of Anathapindika. At that time the Blessed One edified, aroused, quickened and gladdened the monks with a religious discourse on the subject of Nirvana." Buddhism Sacred Writing

"I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word" Jewish Bible

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ" Christian Bible

"Similarly, the records of all the scriptures bear witness to this lofty truth and this most exalted
word. Moreover, this verse of the Qur’án, revealed concerning Ḥamzih, the “Prince of Martyrs,” and Abú-Jahl, is a luminous evidence and sure testimony of the truth of Our saying: “Shall the dead, whom We have quickened, and for whom We have ordained a light whereby he may walk among men, be like him, whose likeness is in the darkness, whence he will not come forth?” This verse descended from the heaven of the Primal Will at a time when Ḥamzih had already been invested with the sacred mantle of faith, and Abú-Jahl had waxed relentless in his opposition and unbelief.
From the Wellspring of omnipotence and the Source of eternal holiness, there came the judgment that conferred everlasting life upon Ḥamzih, and condemned Abú-Jahl to eternal damnation. This was the signal that caused the fires of unbelief to glow with the hottest flame in the heart of the infidels, and provoked them openly to repudiate His truth. They loudly clamored: “When did Ḥamzih die? When was he risen? At what hour was such a life conferred upon him?” As they understood not the significance of these noble sayings, nor sought enlightenment from the recognized expounders of the Faith, that these might confer a sprinkling of the Kawthar of divine knowledge upon them, therefore such fires of mischief were kindled amongst men." Bahaullah.


"This servant appealeth to every diligent and enterprising soul to exert his utmost endeavour and arise to rehabilitate the conditions in all regions and to quicken the dead with the living waters of wisdom and utterance, by virtue of the love he cherisheth for God, the One, the Peerless, the Almighty, the Beneficent." Bahaullah

In all Scriptures, we find the symbolic quickening of the dead, which has a spiritual significance.
If you think, they were not inspired from the same source, and by One Author, how can all have an exact symbolism? Sure, you can find identical symbolism in regular books or stories, but, can you find symbolical resurrection of the dead anywhere else other than Holy scriptures?

Unfortunately, the challenge is (in a court of law):

1) The oldest documents are held the genuine beginning
2) The newest documents have the burden of proof

And elsewhere:

1) Jesus did miracles, we cannot even compare Muhammed's miracles
2) One would be, of course, resurrection from the dead
3) Fulfilled prophecy, another

 

[ecco]

He is teaching that there are spiritual qualities that through power of God, these spiritual qualities are revived. He is asking God to quicken His Spirit. In a simpler way 'My God quicken me' is the same as 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong'.

OK. I'll replace "quicken" with 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong'in some of you OP comments...




At that time the Blessed One edified, aroused, Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong and gladdened the monks with a religious discourse on the subject of Nirvana." Buddhism Sacred Writing

Hmm. Let's look at another...

This servant appealeth to every diligent and enterprising soul to exert his utmost endeavour and arise to rehabilitate the conditions in all regions and to Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong' the dead with the living waters of wisdom and utterance, by virtue of the love he cherisheth for God, the One, the Peerless, the Almighty, the Beneficent." Bahaullah

That doesn't make much sense either. OK, one more...

the truth of Our saying: “Shall the dead, whom We have 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong', and for whom We have ordained a light whereby he may walk among men, be like him, whose likeness is in the darkness, whence he will not come forth?”

In your OP you tried to make something of the fact that the word 'quicken' was used in a lot of different religious writings. Yet we see that when substituting your own definition for "quicken" it leads to scripture that makes no sense.

So, in reality, the word "quicken" does nothing to tie together various different religions.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

OK. I'll replace "quicken" with 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong'in some of you OP comments...




At that time the Blessed One edified, aroused, Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong and gladdened the monks with a religious discourse on the subject of Nirvana." Buddhism Sacred Writing

Hmm. Let's look at another...

This servant appealeth to every diligent and enterprising soul to exert his utmost endeavour and arise to rehabilitate the conditions in all regions and to Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong' the dead with the living waters of wisdom and utterance, by virtue of the love he cherisheth for God, the One, the Peerless, the Almighty, the Beneficent." Bahaullah

That doesn't make much sense either. OK, one more...

the truth of Our saying: “Shall the dead, whom We have 'Oh My God, guide Me to the right path, so my spirit may become alive and strong', and for whom We have ordained a light whereby he may walk among men, be like him, whose likeness is in the darkness, whence he will not come forth?”

In your OP you tried to make something of the fact that the word 'quicken' was used in a lot of different religious writings. Yet we see that when substituting your own definition for "quicken" it leads to scripture that makes no sense.

So, in reality, the word "quicken" does nothing to tie together various different religions.

I was explaining the whole sentence what David was praying. Not that to replace it!
You cannot replace just one symbol, in a sentence. You would have just see what the whole sentence is saying.

Let me give you an example. If someone says to another person: your face is as bright as the moon.
Can we just replace the word moon with its equivalent:
Your face is as bright as the planet which is smaller than earth, and gets its light from the sun!

Technically thats not how symbolic expressions work!

If you want to replace, in the Quote from Buddhism Scripture:

At that time the Blessed One edified, aroused, quickened and gladdened the monks with a religious discourse on the subject of Nirvana." Buddhism Sacred Writing

This sentence is completely figurative. It is not like Buddha in one time sitting with the monks quickened them, even it may appear.
The above quote can be explained in this way:

Buddha taught many things to His disciples. He caused them to be guided to the right path, opened their eyes to the truth, made them righteous men, He transformed them into good human beings through teachings of Nirvana.

This whole can be just expressed with this:
Buddha arouse and resurrected His disciples.

 

[ManSinha]

Buddha taught many things to His disciples. He caused them to be guided to the right path, opened their eyes to the truth, made them righteous men, He transformed them into good human beings through teachings of Nirvana.

He did all that but he was not the only one - unless you are sticking to your original premise

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Look, if you want to believe that pulling random words out of different scriptures makes the of the same source, good on you. You have the right to believe what you will and I won’t judge.

But continuing to create “debate” threads trying to convince others of this amounts to little more than proselytizing under the guise of debate. Please stop.

It appears you did make a judgement, by the comments that followed.

Instead, the meaning behind these quotes could be explored, to see if there is merit to the view that was posted.

Regards Tony

 

[SalixIncendium]

It appears you did make a judgement, by the comments that followed.

No, I did not judge anyone for believing as they do.

Instead, the meaning behind these quotes could be explored, to see if there is merit to the view that was posted.

Regards Tony

By all means! Explore away! Come back and let me know when you find something conclusive (preferably something that is not written in the Baha'i Reference Library).

 

[siti]

In all Scriptures, we find the symbolic quickening of the dead, which has a spiritual significance. If you think, they were not inspired from the same source, and by One Author, how can all have an exact symbolism? Sure, you can find identical symbolism in regular books or stories, but, can you find symbolical resurrection of the dead anywhere else other than Holy scriptures?

"In all scriptures" IT? You seem to be getting a tad carried away with this idea. Certainly I would agree that the symbolic resurrection ("quickening") of the "spiritually dead" is a common theme in the Abrahamic scriptures (all but one of your quotes were from those sources). But the first quote is an account about Buddha "enlivening" or "reinvigorating" (two other possible synonyms for "quickening") the monks with an encouraging discourse - there is no suggestion that the monks were "dead" - either literally or figuratively - in fact I think it is very difficult to read that passage as having any symbolic intent at all - and even if there were, its a bit of a leap from that to "In all Scriptures, we find the symbolic quickening of the dead" isn't it? And an even more unlikely jump from that to - therefore they must all have the same divine origin. Its a bit like someone suggesting that stories of "three men in a boat" and the "three little pigs" must have been written by the same person because they both have the number three in them and then suggesting that because the three is symbolic - even when it isn't - that the author must be God.

 

[ecco]

You cannot replace just one symbol, in a sentence. You would have just see what the whole sentence is saying.

I agree. That is exactly why your contention...

There are very specific and Rare Symbolic Expressions, which is found only in the Scriptures of Great Religions.
Here, as the first example, a list of Quotes, containing the Symbolic Quickening of the dead:

... is without merit.

In each instance "quicken" has a completely different meaning and is not indicative of a "very specific and Rare Symbolic Expression..."

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What is a spiritual quality?

Kindness, forgiveness, patience, generosity, steadfastness, ...etc.

 

[Audie]

Kindness, forgiveness, patience, generosity, steadfastness, ...etc.

You need religion for that? We are taught
such things just as part of life.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"In all scriptures" IT? You seem to be getting a tad carried away with this idea. Certainly I would agree that the symbolic resurrection ("quickening") of the "spiritually dead" is a common theme in the Abrahamic scriptures (all but one of your quotes were from those sources). But the first quote is an account about Buddha "enlivening" or "reinvigorating" (two other possible synonyms for "quickening") the monks with an encouraging discourse - there is no suggestion that the monks were "dead" - either literally or figuratively - in fact I think it is very difficult to read that passage as having any symbolic intent at all - and even if there were, its a bit of a leap from that to "In all Scriptures, we find the symbolic quickening of the dead" isn't it? And an even more unlikely jump from that to - therefore they must all have the same divine origin. Its a bit like someone suggesting that stories of "three men in a boat" and the "three little pigs" must have been written by the same person because they both have the number three in them and then suggesting that because the three is symbolic - even when it isn't - that the author must be God.

"And on another occasion the Blessed One dwelt at Savatthi in the Jetavana, the garden of Anathapindika. At that time the Blessed One edified, aroused, quickened and gladdened the monks with a religious discourse on the subject of Nirvana." Buddhism Sacred Writing

I am pretty sure, the original word in Buddhist Scriptures, literally means 'resurrect', and is exactly what we seen in other scriptures. Do you want to look it up?
Also, notice the word 'arouse', before it. That is what appears in Abrahamic faiths. For example the Qaim, who is the promised One of Islam,literally means 'the One who Rises'. And also in the Bible, one of the titles of Christ is also the One who rises, as the first Man.
You may think, Quote in the Buddhism is literally saying Buddha arouse, as if He stood up. But, this is also symbolic, and it exactly means, the state of awakening, to Rise and guide humanity.
I understand, you may not see it that way, or you may choose to not see it that way. We can leave it as that.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You need religion for that? We are taught
such things just as part of life.

Now, you are getting out of the OP topic.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I agree. That is exactly why your contention...


... is without merit.

In each instance "quicken" has a completely different meaning and is not indicative of a "very specific and Rare Symbolic Expression..."

Do you want to explain how in each instance 'quicken' has a completely different meaning?

 

[Audie]

Now, you are getting out of the OP topic.

So dont try to give a answer you dont have anyway. No prob.

Theres been little remotely on op
ever since nobody agreed to these
amazing similarities though.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So dont try to give a answer you dont have anyway. No prob.

Theres been little remotely on op
ever since nobody agreed to these
amazing similarities though.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion!

 

[Audie]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion!

But not as they say, their own factoids.
But never mind, nothing to see here.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But not as they say, their own factoids.
But never mind, nothing to see here.

We should all see through our own eyes. If most people do not agree that there are identical expressions in the scriptures of great religions, it is not very seeming that we merely also go by the majority. We should see it through our own eyes. How many times the majority had it wrong. Sigh...

These similarities are not just one or two or three.
Consider in Both Hindu and Christian Scriptures, it is written that the Promised One, the Lord comes down on a White Horse! How can we ignore such specific symbolic similarities in religions that are thousands of years and miles apart? Some may say, they copied from each other, a claim without evidence. Moreover, the ancient world was not really connected to each other with internet, or other communication way, so, they can just copy some expressions.

 

[ManSinha]

Consider in Both Hindu and Christian Scriptures, it is written that the Promised One, the Lord comes down on a White Horse! How can we ignore such specific symbolic similarities in religions that are thousands of years and miles apart? Some may say, they copied from each other, a claim without evidence. Moreover, the ancient world was not really connected to each other with internet, or other communication way, so, they can just copy some expressions.

I had an entire thread on that - but at the end of the day - these could very well be human expressions of hope - and yes I know about Kalki and the First Seal of the book of revelation