Identical symbolism in Non-Abrahami and Abrahamic Scriptures

[TransmutingSoul]

A wise man once said, "If God intended for us to go naked, he would have created us that way." A religion that goes way overboard on its morality positions, isn't going to do to well. What are Baha'is going to do? Have segregated beaches where Baha'is can go and not see too much skin? But just how much is too much? Legs are pretty sexy? Cover 'um? How about arms? What about feet? What about a woman's face and hair?

We will have to wait and see what Humanity decides. Personally I see there is great change to come. The cities will not stand as I see the vision for the future is not for centers of material consumption.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

It may be you are yet to consider what is the submission asked for.

That's quite a jump, seeing how little you know about the practices of Hinduism. Very different paradigms, but I understand how that's hard for some to see, without any experience.

 

[ecco]

So, within the Bahai religion, there is not a clear, definitive understanding of who were and who were not Messengers.

The important thing is to accept the Messenger applicable to the day we live in.

The important thing is to have a clear understanding of who the actual Messengers were. It seems that Bahais do not know.

Christ said Elijah always comes first. For the promised day of God, Elijah, the Gate (Bab) was also given direct Revelation from God. The Message of the Bab was to prepeare humanity for Baha'u'llah.

Baha'u'llah said 1000 years before the next Messenger.

Two thousand years ago things moved pretty slowly. Most people lived and died in the same town. Many fathers taught their sons skilled crafts.

Today everything is changing at an unprecedented pace.

Jesus did not say "no more Messengers for 1000 years".
As far as I know, the only Messenger that said "no more Messengers for 1000 years" was Baha'u'llah.

The Bab "prepared humanity for Baha'u'llah". Yet no other Messenger was immediately preceded by a "Preparer Messenger".

I guess it's a good thing, for Baha'u'llah, that The Bab didn't say "no more Messengers for 1000 years".

God doeth as He Willeth and for us it is to look for the good in all things and do good.

It seems to me that people, like The Bab and Baha'u'llah, dideth as they willed.

 

[ecco]

I have been reading the Kitab-i-Aqdas translation available here

And this just blew me away:

"Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire,

I went to your link and could not find any reference to "destroy a house by fire" or other quoted text.

Just wondering.

 

[ecco]

One has to consider it is the Laws for this age, suited to the times. Some of these laws yet to be implemented as the time is not right.

The ones quoted are yet to be implemented.

The Messengers and their translators write some things as laws.

You, a believer, make assertions regarding the timing of the implementation of the laws. By what authority do you get to make such pronouncements?

 

[ecco]

Wait until they explain to you the prophesied "twin manifestations". One "prophecy" is the Three Woes of Revelation. The first Woe is Muhammad. The next one is the Bab. And it says the third Woe is coming quickly, so obviously it was foretold that Baha'u'llah would be within a few years. Except when I read about the Three Woes, they don't sound like it's a prophet coming. It sounds like the $&%* is going to hit the fan.

In another thread a Bahai was fond of quoting and linking to "writings", so I ended up reading quite a bit. I should say I tried to read it. Most of it is, quite literally, unintelligible.

 

[ecco]

But just how much is too much? Legs are pretty sexy? Cover 'um? How about arms? What about feet? What about a woman's face and hair?

https://www.google.com/search?q=in+...2.69i57j0l5.9959j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Times have changed
And we've often rewound the clock
Since the Puritans got a shock
When they landed on Plymouth Rock.
If today
Any shock they should try to stem
'Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock,
Plymouth Rock would land on them.

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking.
Now heaven knows,
Anything goes.
Good authors too who once knew better words
Now only use four-letter words
Writing prose.
Anything goes.
If driving fast cars you like,
If low bars you like,
If old hymns you like,
If bare limbs you like,
If Mae West you like,
Or me undressed you like,
Why, nobody will oppose.
When ev'ry night the set that's smart is in-
Truding in nudist parties in
Studios.
Anything goes.​

 

[ecco]

We all learn submission in one way or another, if not, anarchy reigns.

Muhammad came to teach us that great lesson.

Regards Tony

Yes, indeedy. Muslims are big on submission.
People of the world, submit to Islam.
Women of the world, submit to men.

If you do not practice submission, then you are saying one does not follow any law! If one does follow law, that is submission, and in that submission the foundation of liberty is found.

You know you have been completely indoctrinated when you conflate obeying laws with submission.
You know you have been completely indoctrinated when you find liberty in submission.

 

[Vinayaka]

In another thread a Bahai was fond of quoting and linking to "writings", so I ended up reading quite a bit. I should say I tried to read it. Most of it is, quite literally, unintelligible.

You're not alone. I did the same about a year and a half back. Now I go try a paragraph or two once or twice, but have always encountered the same sense ... gibberish. Really don't know how else to describe it. Back then I was told I simply wasn't trying hard enough. I imagine that would be repeated again too.

 

[ManSinha]

I went to your link and could not find any reference to "destroy a house by fire" or other quoted text.

Just wondering.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Messengers and their translators write some things as laws.

You, a believer, make assertions regarding the timing of the implementation of the laws. By what authority do you get to make such pronouncements?

It is all there to be read.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bab "prepared humanity for Baha'u'llah". Yet no other Messenger was immediately preceded by a "Preparer Messenger".

Plus, Abdul Baha is the "perfect exemplar" of Baha'u'llah's teachings. Who's ever had that going for him.

 

[CG Didymus]

In another thread a Bahai was fond of quoting and linking to "writings", so I ended up reading quite a bit. I should say I tried to read it. Most of it is, quite literally, unintelligible.

Yeah the "Three Woes" stuff was in Some Answered Questions. The book has a couple chapters on Revelation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Plus, Abdul Baha is the "perfect exemplar" of Baha'u'llah's teachings. Who's ever had that going for him.

Yes Baha'u'llah gave Abdul'baha as a gift and a gift He was.

Symbolisim is a key to undestanding all Revelations from God.

Malachi 4:5“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:”

That is this Day.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

https://www.google.com/search?q=in+...2.69i57j0l5.9959j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Times have changed
And we've often rewound the clock
Since the Puritans got a shock
When they landed on Plymouth Rock.
If today
Any shock they should try to stem
'Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock,
Plymouth Rock would land on them.

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking.
Now heaven knows,
Anything goes.
Good authors too who once knew better words
Now only use four-letter words
Writing prose.
Anything goes.
If driving fast cars you like,
If low bars you like,
If old hymns you like,
If bare limbs you like,
If Mae West you like,
Or me undressed you like,
Why, nobody will oppose.
When ev'ry night the set that's smart is in-
Truding in nudist parties in
Studios.
Anything goes.​

In the 70's, the first Baha'is I met were vegetarian, nudists... I thought I had found the perfect religion. Later, I tried to be a born-again Christian, because they told me the Baha'i Faith was a false religion. It turned out to be a lot of fun then too. Lots of "fun" going on after Bible studies. In fact one Catholic girl I met said, "do what you want. I'll just go to confession tomorrow.? God, I love learning about religion back then.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes Baha'u'llah gave Abdul'baha as a gift and a gift He was.

Symbolisim is a key to undestanding all Revelations from God.

Malachi 4:5“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:”

That is this Day.

Regards Tony

Malachi's prophecy wasn't about Jesus and John the Baptist?

 

[ecco]

View attachment 27812

Hmmm. OK, found the problem. The entire article is not opened immediately. After I scrolled down and clicked "Read More" the rest of the article came up and I found "fire" etc.

Perhaps the Bahais among us could answer some questions regarding...

Hearken ye, O Rulers of America and the Presidents of the Republics therein, unto that which the Dove is warbling on the Branch of Eternity: “There is none other God but Me, the Ever-Abiding, the Forgiving, the All-Bountiful.” Adorn ye the temple of dominion with the ornament of justice and of the fear of God, and its head with the crown of the remembrance of your Lord, the Creator of the heavens. Thus counseleth you He Who is the Dayspring of Names, as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. The Promised One hath appeared in this glorified Station, whereat all beings, both seen and unseen, have rejoiced. Take ye advantage of the Day of God. Verily, to meet Him is better for you than all that whereon the sun shineth, could ye but know it. O concourse of rulers! Give ear unto that which hath been raised from the Dayspring of Grandeur: “Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Lord of Utterance, the All-Knowing.” Bind ye the broken with the hands of justice, and crush the oppressor who flourisheth with the rod of the commandments of your Lord, the Ordainer, the All-Wise.
​

...starting with:

• Who wrote it
• Which Presidents of which Republics
• Who is doing the counseling
• Who is the Dayspring of Names
• Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise
• Who is the Promised One hath appeared
• What is this glorified Station

 

[ecco]

One has to consider it is the Laws for this age, suited to the times. Some of these laws yet to be implemented as the time is not right.

The ones quoted are yet to be implemented. The death penalty in all cases is up to the law makers, as life in prision has also been allowed for. The maximun penalty has been given.

The Messengers and their translators write some things as laws.

You, a believer, make assertions regarding the timing of the implementation of the laws. By what authority do you get to make such pronouncements?

It is all there to be read.

I asked you where you got the authority to make such pronouncements. Since you feel you have the authority to make such pronouncements, you should be able to show us where or what gave you such authority.

Do you expect me to read all that was ever written about Bahai and come across something that says: A person using the internet name Tony Bristow-Stagg can proclaim when scriptural laws can and will be implemented because...?

 

[ManSinha]

​

Hmmm. OK, found the problem. The entire article is not opened immediately. After I scrolled down and clicked "Read More" the rest of the article came up and I found "fire" etc.

Perhaps the Bahais among us could answer some questions regarding...

Hearken ye, O Rulers of America and the Presidents of the Republics therein, unto that which the Dove is warbling on the Branch of Eternity: “There is none other God but Me, the Ever-Abiding, the Forgiving, the All-Bountiful.” Adorn ye the temple of dominion with the ornament of justice and of the fear of God, and its head with the crown of the remembrance of your Lord, the Creator of the heavens. Thus counseleth you He Who is the Dayspring of Names, as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. The Promised One hath appeared in this glorified Station, whereat all beings, both seen and unseen, have rejoiced. Take ye advantage of the Day of God. Verily, to meet Him is better for you than all that whereon the sun shineth, could ye but know it. O concourse of rulers! Give ear unto that which hath been raised from the Dayspring of Grandeur: “Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Lord of Utterance, the All-Knowing.” Bind ye the broken with the hands of justice, and crush the oppressor who flourisheth with the rod of the commandments of your Lord, the Ordainer, the All-Wise.
​

...starting with:

• Who wrote it
• Which Presidents of which Republics
• Who is doing the counseling
• Who is the Dayspring of Names
• Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise
• Who is the Promised One hath appeared
• What is this glorified Station

Makes little sense on the following accounts

1. America has no republics and so either the original or translation is inaccurate
2. If "America" is taken as a symbolism for the world - that is so far off that it is a non-starter
3. There is self aggrandizing in the highlighted statement above - very unlike a prophet or messenger that I know

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I asked you where you got the authority to make such pronouncements. Since you feel you have the authority to make such pronouncements, you should be able to show us where or what gave you such authority.

Do you expect me to read all that was ever written about Bahai and come across something that says: A person using the internet name Tony Bristow-Stagg can proclaim when scriptural laws can and will be implemented because...?

You are free to do as you wish. If you were interested, you would look.

Apart from that stay well and happy.

Regards Tony