Thief
Rogue Theologian
You're confusing spiritual life with spiritual character.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
If Adam had not sinned.
- Thread starter Protoman
- Start date
You're confusing spiritual life with spiritual character.
Even if Adam would not have eaten and never sinned and died, the Life he had at best was a natural life, and far inferior to the Eternal Life God Promised in Christ Jesus before Adam was even dust of the ground. Titus 1:
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
This Life was in God's Son Christ not Adam 1 Jn 5:
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
waitasec
Veteran Member
you got it wrong...if he hadn't sinned he wouldn't have died...
and i am sorry you feel this life is inferior to being dead...but this makes sense coming from someone who's living for the afterlife...
Wasn't God's original purpose for man to live forever. -Gen 1v28 ?
God's promised 'seed' [Jesus] of Gen [3v15] will undo all the harm.
[including our last enemy being brought to nothing. -1st Cor 15v26]
Some like Paul [elect- Luke 12v32] will 'live forever in the heavens' as part of the first or earlier resurrection. -Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10; 14vs1-4.
Others, [John 10v16] like the living sheep of Matthew [25vs31,32] will 'live forever on the earth' as part of the humble meek that will inherit the earth as earthly subjects of God's kingdom under Christ.
-Matt 5v5; Psalm 37vs11,29; Psalm 72v8
Thief
Rogue Theologian
you got it wrong...if he hadn't sinned he wouldn't have died...
and i am sorry you feel this life is inferior to being dead...but this makes sense coming from someone who's living for the afterlife...
No you've got it wrong.
Adam would have died ...with or without the knowledge of good and evil.
It is the spirit that is at risk.
With knowledge comes responsibility....and judgment.
rockstarwife628
Member
One has to assume Adam was a literal being, rather than a narrative character - that he had actually lived to believe he would have died - to consider whether he would have made it to heaven.
I personally don't interpret the Garden narrative literally, and don't believe Adam and Eve were actual people who really lived.
I believe the Garden narrative reveals to us the ideal, as well as introduces humanity into the Divine context, while explaining things that at the time had no explanation, like why there was "sin" and suffering in the world, etc.
I personally don't interpret the Garden narrative literally, and don't believe Adam and Eve were actual people who really lived.
I believe the Garden narrative reveals to us the ideal, as well as introduces humanity into the Divine context, while explaining things that at the time had no explanation, like why there was "sin" and suffering in the world, etc.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
One has to assume Adam was a literal being, rather than a narrative character - that he had actually lived to believe he would have died - to consider whether he would have made it to heaven.
I personally don't interpret the Garden narrative literally, and don't believe Adam and Eve were actual people who really lived.
I believe the Garden narrative reveals to us the ideal, as well as introduces humanity into the Divine context, while explaining things that at the time had no explanation, like why there was "sin" and suffering in the world, etc.
Adam would be the first to walk with God.
(not necessarily the first man)
The Garden event represents a change in the course of Man.
It credits the hand of God.
The literal text is for discussion.
But to say it did not happen?....takes it all away.
waite:
I know, but , also if he had not sinned, he was still only flesh and blood at best, and flesh and blood cannot enter into God's Eternal Kingdom. 1 Cor 15:
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
I stated this already in post 143, i do not think you pay attention !
I know, but , also if he had not sinned, he was still only flesh and blood at best, and flesh and blood cannot enter into God's Eternal Kingdom. 1 Cor 15:
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
I stated this already in post 143, i do not think you pay attention !
Last edited:
waitasec
Veteran Member
so why did jesus' physical body disappear then?
waitasec
Veteran Member
One has to assume Adam was a literal being, rather than a narrative character - that he had actually lived to believe he would have died - to consider whether he would have made it to heaven.
I personally don't interpret the Garden narrative literally, and don't believe Adam and Eve were actual people who really lived.
I believe the Garden narrative reveals to us the ideal, as well as introduces humanity into the Divine context, while explaining things that at the time had no explanation, like why there was "sin" and suffering in the world, etc.
i agree.
in order to argue that adam was narrative character you need to put him in a literal setting...and it never seems to add up without a bunch of disclaimers and a bunch of goal posts being repositioned...
You tell me, I am not here to answer all your dumb questions. I am making my points and can defend them from scripture. I am not chasing all your dumb questions all around, provide your own beliefs and see if you can defend them from your sources or you do not know how to do that ?:no:
McBell
Unbound
wow.
All that to say "I don't know"?
I have often wondered why people cannot just say "I do not know" but instead have to get all huffy and defensive.
One does wonder why the question so upsets you...
waitasec
Veteran Member
well you said flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven by quoting scripture, what's wrong with asking the purpose of jesus body disappearing...you seem to know it all
from the way you responded seems i touched a nerve...maybe you don't.
waitasec
Veteran Member
so how do you translate this...?
“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
and
“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
i almost want to say that god didn't want man to live eternally in death..or in other words, eternally in knowledge...
is it the knowledge of knowing there is a choice?
sure, that is why this story is a metaphor for why we die... knowledge...no one can live without some form of knowledge..it is unavoidable, just like death and taxes
i wouldn't say judgment instead i'd say consequences...
ura:
Yes, but through Christ, not through Adam. Eternal Life was Eternally Promised before the world began Titus 1:
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
This Life was in His Son Christ 1 Jn 5:
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Adam did not have Eternal life in Him ! He was made from the dust. His life had a beginning, Eternal Life has no beginning or ending !
Yes, but through Christ, not through Adam. Eternal Life was Eternally Promised before the world began Titus 1:
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
This Life was in His Son Christ 1 Jn 5:
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Adam did not have Eternal life in Him ! He was made from the dust. His life had a beginning, Eternal Life has no beginning or ending !
Immortal life has no end.
Immortal God had no beginning according to Psalm 90v2.
Adam nor angels were created immortal but as mortals.
Mortals can die. -Ezekiel 18vs4,20; Acts 3v23; Hebrews 2v14 B.
The only way they could have eternal or everlasting life is by obedience to God's way of ruling. So, Adam did not have immortality in him.
Adam could only keep or have everlasting eternal life if obedient.
Please notice immortal life is granted to some according to 1st Cor. 15vs53,54; John 5v26.
The humble sheep-like people of Matt 25v32 can gain eternal or everlasting life instead of immortality. Those resurrected to heaven become immortal.
Those that will be part of the humble meek that will inherit [not heaven] but inherit earth gain everlasting life on earth. -Matt 5v5; Psalm 37vs11,29.
At Gen 3v15 is the promise 'before the world began' or before even righteous Abel was born. - Titus 1v2; Romans 16v25; 2nd Tim 1v9
ninerbuff
godless wonder
If not for this silly story, then maybe religions wouldn't exist as they are today.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
so how do you translate this...?
You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.
and
The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.
i almost want to say that god didn't want man to live eternally in death..or in other words, eternally in knowledge...
is it the knowledge of knowing there is a choice?
sure, that is why this story is a metaphor for why we die... knowledge...no one can live without some form of knowledge..it is unavoidable, just like death and taxes
i wouldn't say judgment instead i'd say consequences...
First....stop to consider...
what would Man be, without the knowledge of good and evil?
More of the same on Day Six?
The Garden event was a scene of manipulation...not creation.
The body of Man was altered.
THEN, the spirit of Man was altered.
This would change the course of Man.
The acquisition of knowledge was a 'jump' in what we are.
That Man is mortal, was installed on Day Six.
That portion was not removed.
That Man become aware of his soul, and realizes there is consequence
in the after life.....is correct.
Knowing you can die in flesh is one thing.
Knowing you can die in spirit is something else.
'Consequence' is correct.