If Adam had not sinned.

[McBell]

As always....nothing here worthwhile....
Good luck with that lack of faith.

Not up to the challenge?
Gotta protect that faith of yours, right?

No worries mate.
I am used to you avoiding the real questions.
Just as I am used to you avoiding anything you think challenges your faith.


Faith, it is such a fragile thing...


And you whine about empty retorts?
Your hypocrisy is much much stronger than your faith.
Now what does that say about your faith...
Quite a bit actually.

But let me guess, now comes the denial, right?

Interesting just how much the expert you are in the things you whine so much about others doing.

 

[Thief]

Not up to the challenge?
Gotta protect that faith of yours, right?

No worries mate.
I am used to you avoiding the real questions.
Just as I am used to you avoiding anything you think challenges your faith.


Faith, it is such a fragile thing...


And you whine about empty retorts?
Your hypocrisy is much much stronger than your faith.
Now what does that say about your faith...
Quite a bit actually.

But let me guess, now comes the denial, right?

Interesting just how much the expert you are in the things you whine so much about others doing.

This wouldn't be a bad post except....it completely fails to portray me correctly.

Take another look in the mirror.

 

[McBell]

This wouldn't be a bad post except....it completely fails to portray me correctly.

Take another look in the mirror.

:biglaugh:
You just proved it is with your post saying it isn't!
:biglaugh:


Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Thief]

:biglaugh:
You just proved it is with your post saying it isn't!
:biglaugh:


Thanks for the confirmation.

Someday...you might have a thought.

In the mean time....try harder.

 

[McBell]

Someday...you might have a thought.

In the mean time....try harder.

Empty retort.

Not that anyone is surprised.

 

[Thief]

Empty retort.

Not that anyone is surprised.

Same to you.

 

[McBell]

Same to you.

Ah, you want to play the empty retort game?
Not really interested in sinking down to your extreme lower level of intellect today.
Hit me up on the marrow, though.
Never know when I will get bored enough to help you stroke your ego.

Try to leave your faith at home though.
Wouldn't want to damage such a fragile little thing...

Or better yet, wrap your fragile little faith up in your hypocrisy and ego.
Then you will never ever have to worry about it again...

But I regress.
Have a nice day.
No really,
Have a nice day.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you think the Garden event was a set up for the sake of God?
So He can eventually jump and down...and say...'I rule!'

According to Genesis the Garden was 'set up' for the benefit and sake of mankind to live forever on a paradisaic earth.

It was Satan that created the evil 'set up' for the sake of Satan.
Satan succeeded in getting Adam and Eve to put him above God.
They took refuge in his lie.

The tree of knowledge was not bad in itself. That tree was the law.
The law which was good in itself. A&E were banished from the tree of life not because they knew evil but because they disobeyed God by breaking God's law.
By Adam stealing God's fruit he was choosing to set up people rule as superior to God Rule. Adam choose independence from God's way of ruling.

How many trees are there on earth ?__________
Out of all of earth's trees God had only one tree he called his own.
Since the tree was God's tree [property] then didn't God have the right to decide about the tree?
By saying 'don't eat' God was in effect putting up a no-trespassing sign on it.

If your generous neighbor invited you to his garden and told you out of all the fruit trees help yourself except for one tree, would you consider your generous neighbor as unreasonable or setting you up for a fall?

So the issue in Eden was a choice to make. Right in our eyes or right in God's eyes or viewpoint? What is the best thing to do? Obey and live forever or disobey and possibly die forever.

So, in Genesis, by Adam turning aside from divine law then Adam began to imitate God's opposition or enemy just as Satan wants us to do.

Doesn't the world scene today show it is Satan who 'jumped down' [Rev 12v12] and says, "I rule"? So why shouldn't we expect divine involvement in mankind's affairs to get rid of Satan along with any that would also want to bring ruin to earth either in a literal way or morally ?

 

[Thief]

According to Genesis the Garden was 'set up' for the benefit and sake of mankind to live forever on a paradisaic earth.

Not true. We were never meant to live forever physically.
Spiritually....as in heaven....yes.

It was Satan that created the evil 'set up' for the sake of Satan.
Satan succeeded in getting Adam and Eve to put him above God.
They took refuge in his lie.

The tree of knowledge was not bad in itself. That tree was the law.
The law which was good in itself. A&E were banished from the tree of life not because they knew evil but because they disobeyed God by breaking God's law.
By Adam stealing God's fruit he was choosing to set up people rule as superior to God Rule. Adam choose independence from God's way of ruling.

Day Six...Go forth be fruitful and multiply. Dominate all things.
No names... no restrictions..... no law...
Man as a species.

How many trees are there on earth ?__________
Out of all of earth's trees God had only one tree he called his own.
Since the tree was God's tree [property] then didn't God have the right to decide about the tree?
By saying 'don't eat' God was in effect putting up a no-trespassing sign on it.

This was the actually set up.
To be sure the alteration had taken effect....
Man had to demonstrate he would 'choose'....of his own freewill.
That he did so proved the soul of Man to be fully independent.
The Garden was then dismantled.
It had served it's purpose.

Satan's involvement was allowed.
It would have made no difference...anyway.
If anything, Satan's ploy would only further define Man's will.

Man was either willing...of his own....to take knowledge into his own hand...
or not.

If not, the Garden event would have been a failure.
Man would have continued as the animal he was...on Day six.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If we were never meant to 'live forever physically', then why were Adam and Eve told they could live forever physically if they were obedient ?
God can not lie according to Titus.

How is Jesus to have living subjects from sea to sea to the ends of the earth, according to Psalm 72v8, if the subjects are not physical ? [Zech 9v10 B]

 

[Thief]

If we were never meant to 'live forever physically', then why were Adam and Eve told they could live forever physically if they were obedient ?
God can not lie according to Titus.

How is Jesus to have living subjects from sea to sea to the ends of the earth, according to Psalm 72v8, if the subjects are not physical ? [Zech 9v10 B]

His kingdom is not of this world....He said so.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

His kingdom is not of this world....He said so.

None of earth's kingdoms follow the rules of God's kingdom, so definitely God's kingdom is not part of this world or have a hand in this world's rules or rulership.
-2nd Cor 4v4.

Please notice Matthew [12v32 B] because 'this world' is not the focus but the world to come. The world to come as mentioned at Hebrews [2v5]

We are now in the last days of this world's badness on earth according to 2nd Tim 3vs1-5,13. Once this world's last days are over then begins a new world or new earthly society where only righteousness will dwell starting at the time of Matthew 25vs31,32. God makes all things new. Rev 21v5; 2nd Peter 3v13.

 

[Thief]

None of earth's kingdoms follow the rules of God's kingdom, so definitely God's kingdom is not part of this world or have a hand in this world's rules or rulership.
-2nd Cor 4v4.

Please notice Matthew [12v32 B] because 'this world' is not the focus but the world to come. The world to come as mentioned at Hebrews [2v5]

We are now in the last days of this world's badness on earth according to 2nd Tim 3vs1-5,13. Once this world's last days are over then begins a new world or new earthly society where only righteousness will dwell starting at the time of Matthew 25vs31,32. God makes all things new. Rev 21v5; 2nd Peter 3v13.

The kingdom is not of this world.
The kingdom is within you.

Now then...are you of this world?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The kingdom is not of this world.
The kingdom is within you.
Now then...are you of this world?

Yes the kingdom is not of this world because this world is earthly.
The kingdom of God is heavenly or God's heavenly kingdom.
Jesus is king of God's heavenly kingdom.
Jesus is not king of this world's kingdoms or earthly kingdoms.
During Jesus 1000-year heavenly reign over earth Jesus will rule as heavenly king over all nations. [Rev 22v2]

Was God's kingdom actually inside of Jesus?
Surely Jesus obeyed the rules of God's kingdom, but God's royal kingdom was not literally inside of Christ. What does Daniel 2v44; 7vs13,14,18 say about what God's kingdom will accomplish ?

Was God's kingdom inside or within the Pharisees ? [Luke 17vs20,21]

Or did Jesus teach the kingdom would not immediately appear? [Luke 19v15]

Christians are not part of this world. Not part of this world of badness.
Jesus was neutral regarding the affairs of this world of badness.
Jesus 1st-century followers were neutral regarding the affairs of this world.
So, just like the 1st-century Christians I too am no part of this world.

 

[Thief]

Yes the kingdom is not of this world because this world is earthly.
The kingdom of God is heavenly or God's heavenly kingdom.
Jesus is king of God's heavenly kingdom.
Jesus is not king of this world's kingdoms or earthly kingdoms.
During Jesus 1000-year heavenly reign over earth Jesus will rule as heavenly king over all nations. [Rev 22v2]

Was God's kingdom actually inside of Jesus?
Surely Jesus obeyed the rules of God's kingdom, but God's royal kingdom was not literally inside of Christ. What does Daniel 2v44; 7vs13,14,18 say about what God's kingdom will accomplish ?

Was God's kingdom inside or within the Pharisees ? [Luke 17vs20,21]

Or did Jesus teach the kingdom would not immediately appear? [Luke 19v15]

Christians are not part of this world. Not part of this world of badness.
Jesus was neutral regarding the affairs of this world of badness.
Jesus 1st-century followers were neutral regarding the affairs of this world.
So, just like the 1st-century Christians I too am no part of this world.

Appears you are confusing conformity with citizenship.

God is spirit.
The Sons of God are spirit.
The Kingdom is spiritual.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Appears you are confusing conformity with citizenship.
God is spirit.
The Sons of God are spirit.
The Kingdom is spiritual.

Interesting that you use the word citizenship. Don't we associate citizenship with being a subject ? In this case a subject or citizen of God's kingdom under Christ Jesus who will have earthly subjects [citizens] from sea to sea to the ends of the earth according to Psalm 72v8.

Can't the physical man also be a spiritual man?
The spiritual Sons of God [not the angelic sons] are humans [physical] that must 'put on a spirit body' as Jesus did at his resurrection and ascension to heaven. ['put on': 1st Cor 15vs 53,54]

The kingdom is spiritual and it is heavenly. Jerusalem above [Gal 4v26]
The Sons of God aka Jesus 'brothers' [1st Cor 15v50] are 'first fruits'
[1st Cor 15vs20,23] Doesn't 'first' mean more to follow?

Aren't Jesus 'brothers' [adopted sons] the 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40?

The sheep of verse 32 are not the 'brothers' but do good to Jesus' 'brothers'.
Because they do good to Jesus 'brothers' the living sheep are counted as worthy of everlasting life.
Everlasting life for those sheep on earth as was originally offered to Adam.

Jesus 'brothers' according to Rev [20v6; 5vs9,10] rule in heaven with Jesus but the sheep are not in heaven but alive on earth. Jesus and his 'brothers' reign over earthly citizens or earthly subjects of God's heavenly kingdom.

Don't we pray God's will be done right here on earth as it is in heaven?
Isn't God's will for heaven good conditions?
Nobody goes to heaven to be sick in heaven, no war in heaven, no violence in heaven, no poverty in heaven, nobody dies in heaven.

So, since those good conditions are God's will for heaven, and we pray those same good conditions be here on earth as it is in heaven, then aren't we praying for those same good conditions to be right here on earth as those good conditions are in heaven?

 

[waitasec]

if adam hadn't sinned, it wouldn't explain a thing...

 

[anthony55]

Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..

 

[Thief]

Interesting that you use the word citizenship. Don't we associate citizenship with being a subject ? In this case a subject or citizen of God's kingdom under Christ Jesus who will have earthly subjects [citizens] from sea to sea to the ends of the earth according to Psalm 72v8.

Can't the physical man also be a spiritual man?
The spiritual Sons of God [not the angelic sons] are humans [physical] that must 'put on a spirit body' as Jesus did at his resurrection and ascension to heaven. ['put on': 1st Cor 15vs 53,54]

The kingdom is spiritual and it is heavenly. Jerusalem above [Gal 4v26]
The Sons of God aka Jesus 'brothers' [1st Cor 15v50] are 'first fruits'
[1st Cor 15vs20,23] Doesn't 'first' mean more to follow?

Aren't Jesus 'brothers' [adopted sons] the 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40?

The sheep of verse 32 are not the 'brothers' but do good to Jesus' 'brothers'.
Because they do good to Jesus 'brothers' the living sheep are counted as worthy of everlasting life.
Everlasting life for those sheep on earth as was originally offered to Adam.

Jesus 'brothers' according to Rev [20v6; 5vs9,10] rule in heaven with Jesus but the sheep are not in heaven but alive on earth. Jesus and his 'brothers' reign over earthly citizens or earthly subjects of God's heavenly kingdom.

Don't we pray God's will be done right here on earth as it is in heaven?
Isn't God's will for heaven good conditions?
Nobody goes to heaven to be sick in heaven, no war in heaven, no violence in heaven, no poverty in heaven, nobody dies in heaven.

So, since those good conditions are God's will for heaven, and we pray
those same good conditions be here on earth as it is in heaven, then aren't we praying for those same good conditions to be right here on earth as those good conditions are in heaven?

This life generates the individual.
Your spirit is unique because of this life.
Then back to God you go.

Can't the physical man become a spirit?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This life generates the individual.
Your spirit is unique because of this life.
Then back to God you go.
Can't the physical man become a spirit?

According to chapter 15 of 1st Cor. Jesus 'brothers' [physical people] become 'spirit persons' just as Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person before he ascended up to heaven. -Hebrews 9v24.

However, do the sheep-like people of Matthew 25v32 become spirit persons or remain like Adam as physical persons ?

Only Jesus 'brothers' of Matt [25v40] become spirit persons to be part of the first or earlier resurrection of Rev 20v6.

Both Jesus 'brothers' of verse 40 and Jesus 'sheep' of verse 32 are spiritual persons meaning they all put 'spiritual things' [Jesus teachings] ahead of physical/material things as the most important things in life.