If Adam had not sinned.

[Koldo]

My grade school teachers taught to speak...and write...as briefly as I can.

You should do so as long as it doesn't occult relevant content.

 

[Thief]

You should do so as long as it doesn't occult relevant content.

Did you mean...'assault'?

 

[Koldo]

Did you mean...'assault'?

Not.

I was merely pointing out there is a major difference between saying 'The tree of knowledge is a metaphor.' and 'I believe the tree of knowledge is a metaphor'.

You should not occult the 'I believe' part because it is very relevant.

 

[Thief]

Not.

I was merely pointing out there is a major difference between saying 'The tree of knowledge is a metaphor.' and 'I believe the tree of knowledge is a metaphor'.

You should not occult the 'I believe' part because it is very relevant.

And think there is a difference?
I make a statement and you doubt it?

Back to #98.
Which part do you not understand?

 

[Koldo]

And think there is a difference?
I make a statement and you doubt it?

There is a difference.
When you say 'The tree of knowledge is a metaphor.', you imply it is more than simply your personal belief.

Back to #98.
Which part do you not understand?

I understood all of it.

 

[Thief]

There is a difference.
When you say 'The tree of knowledge is a metaphor.', you imply it is more than simply your personal belief.



I understood all of it.

And which portion do you disagree with?

 

[Koldo]

And which portion do you disagree with?

I disagree with "The tree of knowledge is a metaphor. So too the tree of life.", but I don't disagree with it if it is written like this : 'I believe the tree of knowledge is a metaphor. So too the tree of life.'.

 

[Thief]

I disagree 'The tree of knowledge is a metaphor. So too the tree of life.', but I don't disagree with it if it is written like this : 'I believe the tree of knowledge is a metaphor. So too the tree of life.'.

And you know the difference between what 'I believe'...as compared to
what I think?

That I think.... Adam and Eve are the first couple...
I think.... The tree of knowledge and the tree of life are metaphors...
Are statements as is.

I care not you you believe.

What do you think?

 

[Koldo]

And you know the difference between what 'I believe'...as compared to
what I think?

That I think.... Adam and Eve are the first couple...
I think.... The tree of knowledge and the tree of life are metaphors...
Are statements as is.

I care not you you believe.

What do you think?

I think that adding 'I think' to the beginning of that sentence sounds good too.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Tree of Life also appears in Revelation Chapter 22. It's leaves are for the healing of the nations (22:2) and those who wash their robes (are purified of sin) can eat of the tree of life (22:14) So it is not God's will to permanently bar us from eating from the tree of life. By Adam and Eve sinning they lost that right, which God wanted, and still wants, to give to man. I believe the Tree of Life is a symbol of Adam in perfection(and by extension Christ, the true Adam), and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is a symbol of Eve, who was a tree with the potential of either good or evil, depending on whether or not she ate of the fruit or not.

What mattered is that after Eve, that Adam still had the choice to eat or not eat. Since Adam had the last choice the fault lies with Adam.
-Romans 5vs12-19

Adam chose to guide self with his particular knowledge of self-determining for himself what was good or evil. Adam deliberately chose to disobey God's 'no trespassing sign' not to eat.

Central to the issues raised in Eden was the issue of divine sovereignty.
Who has the right or best way to rule? Adam by disobeying God was setting up people rule as a superior way of ruling over listening to God's way of ruling.
Is obeying God the best thing to do? Or, turn aside from divine law and imitate God's opposer Satan as he wants you to do ?

So the basic position was: OK fine you want to rule yourself well just go ahead and you can have Satan for your god or ruler. You want him, you got him.
Adequate time gives all enough time so all can see and prove to oneself that man can not successfully govern himself.

So, the tree of knowledge was not considered evil in itself. The tree stood for God's law [God Rule]. The law which was good in itself for our best interest.
Adam and Eve were banished not because they now knew evil or bad but because they disobeyed God's rule or guiding rulership over them.

By allowing the passage of time that allows enough time to go by for us to be born and for all to see the issues raised in Eden come to a happy ending.
A permanent precedent is being established so that at any time in the future [starting with Jesus 1000-year reign over earth] that if God's sovereignty is ever again challenged it would not be necessary to allow for a repeat of any more additional time to go by, or for any persons to disobey God's Golden Rule or Jesus new commandment of John 13vs34,35.
Through Christ, once and for all time, then God will bring to ruin those ruining earth physically or morally.

-Rev 11v 18 B; Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18

 

[Thief]

What mattered is that after Eve, that Adam still had the choice to eat or not eat. Since Adam had the last choice the fault lies with Adam.
-Romans 5vs12-19

Adam chose to guide self with his particular knowledge of self-determining for himself what was good or evil. Adam deliberately chose to disobey God's 'no trespassing sign' not to eat.

Central to the issues raised in Eden was the issue of divine sovereignty.
Who has the right or best way to rule? Adam by disobeying God was setting up people rule as a superior way of ruling over listening to God's way of ruling.
Is obeying God the best thing to do? Or, turn aside from divine law and imitate God's opposer Satan as he wants you to do ?

So the basic position was: OK fine you want to rule yourself well just go ahead and you can have Satan for your god or ruler. You want him, you got him.
Adequate time gives all enough time so all can see and prove to oneself that man can not successfully govern himself.

So, the tree of knowledge was not considered evil in itself. The tree stood for God's law [God Rule]. The law which was good in itself for our best interest.
Adam and Eve were banished not because they now knew evil or bad but because they disobeyed God's rule or guiding rulership over them.

By allowing the passage of time that allows enough time to go by for us to be born and for all to see the issues raised in Eden come to a happy ending.
A permanent precedent is being established so that at any time in the future [starting with Jesus 1000-year reign over earth] that if God's sovereignty is ever again challenged it would not be necessary to allow for a repeat of any more additional time to go by, or for any persons to disobey God's Golden Rule or Jesus new commandment of John 13vs34,35.
Through Christ, once and for all time, then God will bring to ruin those ruining earth physically or morally.

-Rev 11v 18 B; Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18

So you think the Garden event was a set up for the sake of God?
So He can eventually jump and down...and say...'I rule!'

 

[McBell]

So you think the Garden event was a set up for the sake of God?
So He can eventually jump and down...and say...'I rule!'

Makes more sense than some of the other popular theories.

 

[sojourner]

So you think the Garden event was a set up for the sake of God?
So He can eventually jump and down...and say...'I rule!'

The atheists will be delighted to hear that God is an immature, manipulative jerk.
It will be a wonderful opportunity for them to utilize the underrated and under-used epithet: I told you so!

 

[Thief]

The atheists will be delighted to hear that God is an immature, manipulative jerk.
It will be a wonderful opportunity for them to utilize the underrated and under-used epithet: I told you so!

Imagine their faces when He does show up.....
and delivers their expectations....exactly to each word they spoke of Him!

 

[McBell]

Imagine their faces when He does show up.....
and delivers their expectations....exactly to each word they spoke of Him!

Imagine your disappointment when you merely turn to dust...
to think you wasted your life chasing after your faith and beliefs only to turn to dust.

 

[Thief]

Imagine your disappointment when you merely turn to dust...
to think you wasted your life chasing after your faith and beliefs only to turn to dust.

That's not how it works....and you know it.

At the last hour I might very well continue....
having given thought and consideration.

Your fate was sealed by your own declaration.

 

[McBell]

That's not how it works

Prove it.
Oh, that's right.
You have no proof.
Not even evidence.
That is why you cling to tightly to your faith.
It needs neither.

....and you know it.

Do not let your ego trick you into thinking that you know what I know.

At the last hour I might very well continue....

At the last hour you will make a huge arse fool of your self and then turn to dust.
But hey, to each their own.

having given thought and consideration.

:biglaugh:
Why do you bother.
i mean you have your faith, right?

Your fate was sealed by your own declaration.

It is not my fault you have such a fear of death.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Imagine your disappointment when you merely turn to dust...
to think you wasted your life chasing after your faith and beliefs only to turn to dust.

Since Adam we all turn to dust because death according to Romans [6v23] is the wages sin pays.

So, since we never saw an end to sin, we never saw an end to death.
Paul believed the time will come when 'our last enemy death' will be brought to nothing. [1Cor 15v26]

According to Matthew [25vs31,32] those sheep-like people are alive on earth and will remain alive on earth because at that time the value of Jesus ransom sacrifice will be applied to them.

Jesus, according to chapters 24 of Matthew and 21 of Luke, gave us a composite sign of bad global conditions along with Jesus saying the good news of God's kingdom would be proclaimed on a global scale before the end comes of all badness on earth.

Because the 'good news' is now spread all over the earth I think the bad conditions we see today coupled with the global non-stop spreading of the 'good news of God's kingdom is physical proof not of disappointment but reassurance there will be divine involvement in mankind's affairs.

At Revelation [17v11] I believe that 8th king will prove to be the United Nations.
Already the UN sees a dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world.
With backing I think the UN can be strengthened to turn on the corrupt religious world. Would you back corrupt religious systems ? Neither will God because in Bible history God used the political/military world against those that played false to him.

So instead of dust, according to 1st Thess [5vs2,3], Jesus comes by SURPRISE.
Those living sheep-like people at that time according to Matthew can remain alive and keep on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth when as John wrote that even death will be no more. [Rev 21v4]
Since according to Scripture sin causes death, then 'no more death' means Jesus fully applies the merit of his ransom for us, and mankind I believe will gain the same healthy sound human perfection of mind, heart and body that Adam originally had before his fall.

 

[Big_TJ]

John 3:13 “no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man”

Acts 2:29 “Men, brothers, it is allowable to speak with freeness of speech to YOU concerning the family head David, that he both deceased and was buried and his tomb is among us to this day. ... 34 Actually David did not ascend to the heavens

if king David did not go to heaven, what makes you think that Adam might have?

But Pegg, doesnt JW teaches that 144000 will be going to heaven?

 

[Thief]

Prove it.
Oh, that's right.
You have no proof.
Not even evidence.
That is why you cling to tightly to your faith.
It needs neither.


Do not let your ego trick you into thinking that you know what I know.


At the last hour you will make a huge arse fool of your self and then turn to dust.
But hey, to each their own.


:biglaugh:
Why do you bother.
i mean you have your faith, right?


It is not my fault you have such a fear of death.

As always....nothing here worthwhile....
Good luck with that lack of faith.