If All the Prophets Were Muslims, Then What Is Islam?

[happyo]

History much?
Antisemitic Middle Ages propaganda much?
Not know anything about Judaism much?

Only the receiving end of Jewish history I guess. I don't believe what's taught in schools either

 

[happyo]

When Islam started out it only had Arabs as members.




Yes there was. Zoroastrianism, Judaism & Christianity. There were, in fact, three.




I thought the Jewish & Christian scriptures were corrupt and unreliable (according to Islam)? Are you saying the Quran completed corrupt & unreliable scriptures?

Zoroastrianism believes in like a lot of God's definitely not the oneness of god

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's not what it says the basics for the Jewish scriptures have a lot in common with the old testament

There are similarities because the Old Testament is Jewish scripture.

and Christianity didn't exist at the time, however it doesn't teach the oneness of God it says God has a son,

That doesn't violate the oneness of the Abrahamic god. Unless you're suggesting an all-powerful god like Allah can't possibly have a son and still be supreme but that sounds rather heretical.

and the Jews had been corrupted Islam wasn't created just for arabs

Islam was created by Arabs; it started in Arabia and its founder was an Arab. And I love how Muslims claim the Jews have been corrupted while at the same time co-opting their holy figures, their 'corrupt & unreliable scripture' and their main holy site.

Zoroastrianism believes in like a lot of God's definitely not the oneness of god

No it doesn't. I suggest you learn about Zoroastrianism from somewhere other than Muslim sources. According to Zoroastrian theology Ahura Mazda is the Creator and only god in existence. Beings like Mitra are lesser divinities who serve Mazda in the same way the Angels serve Allah.

 

[Tumah]

Only the receiving end of Jewish history I guess. I don't believe what's taught in schools either

In other words, only the things that match what your religion tells you.
Not the part where Jews are forced into money lending by the Christian nations they lived in, because they were not allowed to engage in most other commerce?
Or the part that when too many people owed them money, the leader of the nation would either cancel all Christian debts or expel them from his country.
Or that the vast majority of Jews in Europe lived in abject poverty and with constant pogroms?
In Muslims lands, Jews were engaged in all fields which is why you typically only hear this propaganda from Europeans.

Or that Judaism teaches that one give either a tenth or fifth of all received money in addition to the requirement to give charity.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

Do you realize that this defeats your own argument that the former "prophet" were Muslims? None of them either mentioned or believed in Muhammad as being the Messenger of Allah.

Yet those scriptures are only unreliable as long as Muslims aren't telling us they really prophesy Muhammad.
Muhammad(pbuh) was mentioned in the books. Still you may find some clews.



Preachy, preachy. Careful.




None of the prophets before Muhammad believed this ergo they are not Muslims.
They would all regard Muhammad,pbuh, as the prophet of God and the last messenger. They all talked about him. From Adam,pbuh, to Jesus, pbuh.



Nice to see you're taking ownership of Islamist terrorist groups (even if inadvertently) and recognising they're a part of your faith. I appreciate that this may come across as facetious but I am in earnest.

My denial will not change the facts. They are nominally Muslims even if they kill or rape. However, they will go to Hell.

 

[YmirGF]

My denial will not change the facts. They are nominally Muslims even if they kill or rape. However, they will go to Hell.

Which blithely ignores the point of my post. You own post defeats your argument. You might want to rethink that.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Muhammad(pbuh) was mentioned in the books. Still you may find some clews.

No he wasn't. This claim relies entirely on ignorance of the Bible and the languages it & its constituent parts were written in.

They would all regard Muhammad,pbuh, as the prophet of God and the last messenger. They all talked about him. From Adam,pbuh, to Jesus, pbuh.

I seriously doubt it. For one thing, neither Moses or any of the Jewish prophets would have accepted Muhammad because he's an Arab, not a Jew. Your claim rests entirely on the premise that the Abrahamic god is a liar and deliberately misled people in Deuteronomy when he told Moses that the future prophet would be a Jew. Jesus never mentioned Muhammad either. Sending a prophet after Jesus' ascension would have been entirely superfluous.

My denial will not change the facts. They are nominally Muslims even if they kill or rape. However, they will go to Hell.

If your god has any sense of justice then that will more than likely be the case. It may not sound like much coming from someone like me, but seriously, well done for being brave enough to face up to this. Well done being brave enough to admit there's a link between belief and behaviour. That's something far too few Muslims I've seen or interacted with directly are willing to do.

 

[happyo]

There are similarities because the Old Testament is Jewish scripture.




That doesn't violate the oneness of the Abrahamic god. Unless you're suggesting an all-powerful god like Allah can't possibly have a son and still be supreme but that sounds rather heretical.




Islam was created by Arabs; it started in Arabia and its founder was an Arab. And I love how Muslims claim the Jews have been corrupted while at the same time co-opting their holy figures, their 'corrupt & unreliable scripture' and their main holy site.




No it doesn't. I suggest you learn about Zoroastrianism from somewhere other than Muslim sources. According to Zoroastrian theology Ahura Mazda is the Creator and only god in existence. Beings like Mitra are lesser divinities who serve Mazda in the same way the Angels serve Allah.

Zoroastrianism believes there are more than one God. That's the only point. Whether they are lesser or not, is not the point. He said to worship no other Gods before him, this includes like any other God. Which I think is a very basic problem with many Christian religions, some of them teach Trinity which puts Jesus and the holy ghost equal to God, some think Jesus is God, or that He created the earth, some think we will become Gods or like God when we go to heaven. But it says quite plainly there's only one. Ever. Catholics worshipping Mother Mary, and like a thousand saints etc with their little statues and pictures everywhere, is Idolatry. Same with having a picture or statue of Jesus on the cross. Sin. Jews had the book and screwed it up. Crucified Jesus. So Muslims took this book, some of which Jews at the time followed on occasion, and they completed it. Like if u go to school and take beginning algebra in like 6th grade, and your senior year algebra doesn't look anything at all like what you learned way back in the day. This doesn't mean it isn't algebra, it's just like the whole picture. The prophets before Mohammad had this beginners version of Islam but still there was a lot they didn't know or do, because they weren't ready for all of that yet.

 

[happyo]

In other words, only the things that match what your religion tells you.
Not the part where Jews are forced into money lending by the Christian nations they lived in, because they were not allowed to engage in most other commerce?
Or the part that when too many people owed them money, the leader of the nation would either cancel all Christian debts or expel them from his country.
Or that the vast majority of Jews in Europe lived in abject poverty and with constant pogroms?
In Muslims lands, Jews were engaged in all fields which is why you typically only hear this propaganda from Europeans.

Or that Judaism teaches that one give either a tenth or fifth of all received money in addition to the requirement to give charity.

Yes the poor Jews forced to be bankers for eternity. Are you saying it was like they were slaves or something? Let's compare this to forced African slavery lol it seems like that is what you are saying, and that is something that still happens. So in comparison Jews had a walk in the park and if they are so big on charity why are so many of them starving and living in extreme poverty while so many of them are like millionaires? There is a scripture that the Jews believe in, about how when the end comes, since they are "Gods people" lol they will b able to hide in the shade of the cedar tree which is y they plant so many of the stupid things.

 

[happyo]

Do you realize that this defeats your own argument that the former "prophet" were Muslims? None of them either mentioned or believed in Muhammad as being the Messenger of Allah.

Mohammed was mentioned in the bible it says he will b the last prophet. In the bible.

 

[Rival]

Yes the poor Jews forced to be bankers for eternity. Are you saying it was like they were slaves or something? Let's compare this to forced African slavery lol it seems like that is what you are saying, and that is something that still happens. So in comparison Jews had a walk in the park and if they are so big on charity why are so many of them starving and living in extreme poverty while so many of them are like millionaires? There is a scripture that the Jews believe in, about how when the end comes, since they are "Gods people" lol they will b able to hide in the shade of the cedar tree which is y they plant so many of the stupid things.

I wish you'd feck off with your antisemitic nonsense.

 

[happyo]

In other words, only the things that match what your religion tells you.
Not the part where Jews are forced into money lending by the Christian nations they lived in, because they were not allowed to engage in most other commerce?
Or the part that when too many people owed them money, the leader of the nation would either cancel all Christian debts or expel them from his country.
Or that the vast majority of Jews in Europe lived in abject poverty and with constant pogroms?
In Muslims lands, Jews were engaged in all fields which is why you typically only hear this propaganda from Europeans.

Or that Judaism teaches that one give either a tenth or fifth of all received money in addition to the requirement to give charity.

By saying I know more about the receiving end of Jewish history I am speaking about what they have done, as a people to Muslims. Like first hand accounts, and Palestinian history.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Zoroastrianism believes there are more than one God. That's the only point.

No. It. Doesn't. How many books have you ever read about Zoroastrianism? How many? The Gathas (the core text of Zoroastrianism, written by Zarathustra himself) makes no mention of other divinities besides Ahura Mazda being afforded praise and worship. Don't believe me? Here's a the Gathas in pdf format so you can see for yourself.

And for that matter, what are the names of these gods you allude to?

Let me give you a snippet from the religion's wikipedia entry:

Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique […] among the major religions of the world."[2]

Whether they are lesser or not, is not the point.

You clearly cannot read; I said divinities, not deities. Divinities are divine beings which may or may not be gods depending on the religious context. Spirits are divinities, angels are divinities, gods are divinities. If you're going to insist on using 'divinity' as a synonym for 'deity' then even Islam is rendered polytheistic because it accepts the existence of angels like Jibril and entities like the jinn.

 

[YmirGF]

Mohammed was mentioned in the bible it says he will b the last prophet. In the bible.

Actually, it does not and this is little more than a misconception on the part of all too many Muslims due to incredibly sloppy research. Perhaps it's time to come up with some genuine original ideas as these ones impress only the choir. Who knows, next you will probably try to tell me about evidence of scientific miracles in some vague passages found in the Qur'an.

By saying I know more about the receiving end of Jewish history I am speaking about what they have done, as a people to Muslims. Like first hand accounts, and Palestinian history.

Given your posting history thus far I'd be inclined to take that jaundiced view with several boxes of salt.

 

[Tumah]

By saying I know more about the receiving end of Jewish history I am speaking about what they have done, as a people to Muslims. Like first hand accounts, and Palestinian history.

That makes no sense. You were using this statement as an argument for why G-d moved away from the Jews and to the Muslims.

Jews went so far off the Path of Righteousness, and the argument on the Islamic side is that it fixed where the Jews screwed up, it teaches charity where Jews are known as the bankers and collectors of wealth and fine things. This is just one example.​

There were no Muslims at this point. Nor for the next 1,500 years where they lived as dhimmi in Mulsim lands...

Likewise, there has never been a point in history later than 2,000 years ago where Jews as a nation did anything to anyone.

 

[Tumah]

Yes the poor Jews forced to be bankers for eternity. Are you saying it was like they were slaves or something? Let's compare this to forced African slavery lol it seems like that is what you are saying, and that is something that still happens. So in comparison Jews had a walk in the park and if they are so big on charity why are so many of them starving and living in extreme poverty while so many of them are like millionaires?

Are you even being serious?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Middle_Ages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_antisemitism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

The magnitude of your error is so abnormally great, I honestly don't know how the universe doesn't pop you out of existence. Just read one of these and you'll see just how unbelievably wrong you are.

There is a scripture that the Jews believe in, about how when the end comes, since they are "Gods people" lol they will b able to hide in the shade of the cedar tree which is y they plant so many of the stupid things.

Is there such a Scripture?

You don't think they plant that tree because its native to the land and is suitably adapted to its climate?

 

[happyo]

That makes no sense. You were using this statement as an argument for why G-d moved away from the Jews and to the Muslims.

Jews went so far off the Path of Righteousness, and the argument on the Islamic side is that it fixed where the Jews screwed up, it teaches charity where Jews are known as the bankers and collectors of wealth and fine things. This is just one example.​

There were no Muslims at this point. Nor for the next 1,500 years where they lived as dhimmi in Mulsim lands...

Likewise, there has never been a point in history later than 2,000 years ago where Jews as a nation did anything to anyone.

Are you saying that these things justify their current actions? Like saying these bad things happened, so now we have a free pass. Let us in turn wipe out the Arab race, like the Germans did to us. Like politically speaking how could I steal possibly justify white phosphorus in Palestine? Or basically anything else to do with Palestine? Stealing Syrian land in the middle of a civil war that was started by Israeli and western pot stirrers? The list of Jewish crimes under the people of God banner is long.

 

[Tumah]

Are you saying that these things justify their current actions? Like saying these bad things happened, so now we have a free pass. Let us in turn wipe out the Arab race, like the Germans did to us. Like politically speaking how could I steal possibly justify white phosphorus in Palestine? Or basically anything else to do with Palestine? Stealing Syrian land in the middle of a civil war that was started by Israeli and western pot stirrers? The list of Jewish crimes under the people of God banner is long.

No, in fact, I didn't speak about it at all. For some reason you did even though it has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion whatsoever...

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

That's an interesting point and I kind of wonder how it works.
All-h chooses Ishmael then kind of forgets about that and lets his kids wander off to serve moon gods and what have you. In the meantime - while His chosen's progeny are engaged in polytheism - All-h sends multiple prophets to Isaac's line constantly berating them to practice monotheism. He gives them books and revelations and what have you. All the while completely ignoring Ishmael's kids and their kufr ways. Then He finally switches back to Ishmael after a brief intermission of a few thousand years.

Actually Allah swt chosed Prophet Muhammad PBUH not from the progeny of Isaac but from the progeny of Ishmael so as to separate the evil from the good.
So the forces of evil will reject him based on arrogance and racism. They will say : "how can we follow an arab prophet, when we are the chosen people? When we are a proud master nation? Never!".
So they follow their own desires, but they shall see where their desires will take them.

Just like Satan rejected to obey command of Allah swt to bown down for Adam due to arrogance and racism(" iam created from fire and he is created from earth").

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Actually Allah swt chosed Prophet Muhammad PBUH not from the progeny of Isaac but from the progeny of Ishmael so as to separate the evil from the good.

...

So the Jews are evil. You heard it here first, folks!