If Christ wasn't the messiah, what was he?

[metis]

But my point is if God "Created man" as Jewish scripture and scholars suggest (not having anything to do with ToE of the rest of creation, then God can create a body in a woman too unless we limit His capacity as God.

Hypothetically, yes.

 

[Brian2]

Why do you need your numbers refuted? You pointed out Jehovahs Witnesses are a minority and i pointed out Jesus said his followers would be as well.

Jesus did say that He would be with His church always, and that was from then till now. But the beliefs of the JWs have not existed through that time and so you must think that the Church of God went out of existence for most of that time and only came back into existence in the 19th century.

 

[seekandfind]

Jesus did say that He would be with His church always, and that was from then till now. But the beliefs of the JWs have not existed through that time and so you must think that the Church of God went out of existence for most of that time and only came back into existence in the 19th century.

Do you have a scripture youre referencing?

 

[metis]

Do you have a scripture youre referencing?

Matthew 24[14] And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Mathew 16[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

 

[Brian2]

Do you have a scripture youre referencing?

Matthew 28:19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why do you need your numbers refuted? You pointed out Jehovahs Witnesses are a minority and i pointed out Jesus said his followers would be as well.

Because your reply about what Jesus said doesn't change the reality that there are billions of Christians in the world.

 

[rubi]

OK... then God also has the capacity to create a body in a virgin.

I agree. but it doesn't mean that the boy is his son. moreover, if Christ is the son of God, then he is not the descendent of King David, which is a requirement to be the Messiah..

 

[rubi]

I think what uou mean is the Jewish people as a whole didnt believe. And i think what the other person was saying was Jews were the first to believe him as Gentiles didnt come in until later.

Yes. And I think the point is which Jews? the peasant or scholars? I think the peasant that if they didn't follow Christ, they would idol worship. in a smaller scale, though.

 

[rubi]

Jesus was a nice Jewish man who tried to be the messiah and failed.

And God happened to grant his wish? what did he say about following the Tora? did he encourage it?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And God happened to grant his wish?

Huh? What are you talking about?

what did he say about following the Tora? did he encourage it?

We actually know practically nothing about what Jesus said and did. The gospels are collections of legends, not history. But let's for the sake of argument look at what the gospels say.

Matthew 5:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.

Matthew 23:
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

 

[metis]

Huh? What are you talking about?

We actually know practically nothing about what Jesus said and did. The gospels are collections of legends, not history. But let's for the sake of argument look at what the gospels say.

Matthew 5:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.

Matthew 23:
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

IMO, what Jesus was trying to do was to consolidate the entire Law into two Laws, namely the love of haShem and the love of all. He wasn't the first one to go in that direction as Hillel the Elder got pretty close himself.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

IMO, what Jesus was trying to do was to consolidate the entire Law into two Laws, namely the love of haShem and the love of all. He wasn't the first one to go in that direction as Hillel the Elder got pretty close himself.

You are so correct. ALL the rabbis agree that all the commandments can be grouped into two categories: "love God" and "love neighbor"

 

[seekandfind]

Because your reply about what Jesus said doesn't change the reality that there are billions of Christians in the world.

The point of the broad gate is that many think they are doing Gods will when they actually arent.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!" Mt 7:21-23

So its irrelevent how many claim they are Christian. What matters is what God says.

 

[seekandfind]

Matthew 28:19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Hes with those doing what he said. Just because someone claims to be part of Jesus' congregation doesnt mean they are

Yes. And I think the point is which Jews? the peasant or scholars? I think the peasant that if they didn't follow Christ, they would idol worship. in a smaller scale, though.

Peasant or scholar didnt matter, what mattered was their heart condition. Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven- Mt 5:3

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The point of the broad gate is that many think they are doing Gods will when they actually arent.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!" Mt 7:21-23

So its irrelevent how many claim they are Christian. What matters is what God says.

Again, none of this refutes the numbers that there are billions of Christians in the world.

 

[seekandfind]

Again, i dont know why youre looking for a refutal.

 

[rubi]

I hear that the Septuagint was commonly used in Jewish circles around the time of Jesus

I highly doubt that

 

[rubi]

Yes Matthew would have known that story maybe even though it is in Luke's gospel, and so would have known that Mary had been a virgin and may have known Mary also . That Jesus is the Son of God is common in the gospels.

but, to whom was it told? I didn't understand

 

[Colt]

The Israelites were unintended victims of their own priest class.

 

[metis]

I highly doubt that

The Septuagint was used within Jewish circles because of getting the word out to the diaspora as very few spoke Hebrew outside of eretz Israel. When the early scriptures were translated by and for the Church of the diaspora, this was used for centuries.