If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[godnotgod]

He told someone there is no table, may have been you. Reminded me of the matrix movie.

There is no table. It is just form empty of substance, 'table' being a description only in the mind. 'Table' can only exist as the form that it is because of the tree from which it came, the sunlight, water, oxygen and nutrients that grew the tree, the men who harvested the tree, the mill which processed it as lumber, the craftsmen who fashioned it into 'table', etc, etc. This is called The Law of Dependent Origination, where all 'things' co-arise. Nothing exists on its own, and so 'table', in this case, is empty of any inherent 'table' nature. And so the Buddha observed:

'Form is emptiness;
emptiness is form'

 

[Runewolf1973]

The rope is metaphor for The Absolute, the only true Reality. It exists, but is hidden, while at the same time projecting The Universe, for which 'snake is the metaphor. The rope is mistaken for a snake, which does NOT exist, 'snake' being an illusion. This is a case of seeing something (ie; 'snake') that does not exist. Likewise, The Changeless Absolute is mistaken for a a real, material Universe divided into parts and changing all the time. The illusions of both snake and material Universe have no real substance to them, that of 'snake' being far more obvious since it completely vanishes upon detection. Here the metaphor becomes limited in scope. because the illusion of 'snake' is built upon the higher illusion that is rope. But rope is seen, while The Absolute is hidden, and while 'snake' vanishes, The Universe remains visible and 'verifiable' via perception. That Everything can come out of Pure Nothingness is possible simply because 'Everything' is not actually real. It is merely an illusory projection of that which IS real but invisible; The Absolute; Pure Consciousness; The Formless; Nothingness; Brahman; etc.

The magician uses a deck of cards as his stock in trade, but it is because of sleight of hand that the illusion is brought off. He is making the audience believe he is creating magic when he is only fooling the eye. In the case of The Universe, the eye is completely fooled, but the magic is real.

The 'true sensation' of The Absolute is misinterpreted as a material, changing Universe and the result is illusion. When the illusion is finally pierced, The Universe is seen for what it actually is: The Absolute. The Universe is not what it seems to be, as seen through Time, Space, and Causation, just as the rope is not what it seems to be: a snake.

From the scientific POV, this world is not what it seems to be when Quantum Physics is brought into play.

An interesting belief...

 

[YmirGF]

An interesting belief...

Not that interesting... jus' sayin'... it's the attached narrative that spoils things...

 

[godnotgod]

Not that interesting... jus' sayin'... it's the attached narrative that spoils things...

Aw...such a pity!

 

[YmirGF]

 

[`mud]

As to forms and containers:
It seems that everything is a container of something,
and everything is contained,
what's the largest container ?
~
'mud

 

[idav]

There is no table. It is just form empty of substance, 'table' being a description only in the mind. 'Table' can only exist as the form that it is because of the tree from which it came, the sunlight, water, oxygen and nutrients that grew the tree, the men who harvested the tree, the mill which processed it as lumber, the craftsmen who fashioned it into 'table', etc, etc. This is called The Law of Dependent Origination, where all 'things' co-arise. Nothing exists on its own, and so 'table', in this case, is empty of any inherent 'table' nature. And so the Buddha observed:

'Form is emptiness;
emptiness is form'

We didn't find nothing, we found a boson exactly as the standard model predicted, something indeed was there.

 

[godnotgod]

As to forms and containers:
It seems that everything is a container of something,
and everything is contained,
what's the largest container ?
~
'mud

Formless Nothingness, without limits, the ultimate container.

 

[godnotgod]

We didn't find nothing, we found a boson exactly as the standard model predicted, something indeed was there.

A boson is a virtual particle.

"A virtual particle is not a particle at all. It refers precisely to a disturbance in a field that is not a particle. A particle is a nice, regular ripple in a field, one that can travel smoothly and effortlessly through space, like a clear tone of a bell moving through the air. A “virtual particle”, generally, is a disturbance in a field that will never be found on its own, but instead is something that is caused by the presence of other particles, often of other fields."

https://profmattstrassler.com/artic...ysics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/

IOW, a fluctuation in the Higgs Field that gives virtual mass to all of the particles in the Universe, including the Higgs Boson. All of the mass of The Universe is virtual mass and comes from the combined fluctuations in the Higgs and Quantum Fields.

 

[`mud]

I could think that the: " Formless Nothingness, without limits, the ultimate container...",
would inflate the Cosmos further and further from the inter-coupled gravities weakening !
~
So from nothingness to nothingness,
and so, again and again.....
and no container....
~
'mud

 

[Runewolf1973]

A boson is a virtual particle.

"A virtual particle is not a particle at all. It refers precisely to a disturbance in a field that is not a particle. A particle is a nice, regular ripple in a field, one that can travel smoothly and effortlessly through space, like a clear tone of a bell moving through the air. A “virtual particle”, generally, is a disturbance in a field that will never be found on its own, but instead is something that is caused by the presence of other particles, often of other fields."

https://profmattstrassler.com/artic...ysics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/

IOW, a fluctuation in the Higgs Field that gives virtual mass to all of the particles in the Universe, including the Higgs Boson. All of the mass of The Universe is virtual mass and comes from the combined fluctuations in the Higgs and Quantum Fields.

So there you have it... Mass comes from those fluctuations, it doesn't just plop out of just pure inactive nothingness. So what then are those fluctuations? They are disturbances in the Higgs and Quantum Fields...IOW they are interactions. Interaction is everything.

 

[godnotgod]

So there you have it... Mass comes from those fluctuations, it doesn't just plop out of just pure inactive nothingness. So what then are those fluctuations? They are disturbances in the Higgs and Quantum Fields...IOW they are interactions. Interaction is everything.

Heh...heh...heh...'interactions' of what with what? Fluctuations are not material things that interact with other material things. They are information that occur in The Unified Field that is Pure Abstract Intelligence, which ultimately creates the virtual mass of the atom. There is no-thing there. Nada. Just us church mice going nya nya nya playing mit das cheese unt mekkink you tink tings you shouldn't be tinkink. Ya?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Heh...heh...heh...'interactions' of what with what? Fluctuations are not material things that interact with other material things. They are information that occur in The Unified Field that is Pure Abstract Intelligence, which ultimately creates the virtual mass of the atom. There is no-thing there. Nada. Just us church mice going nya nya nya playing mit das cheese unt mekkink you tink tings you shouldn't be tinkink. Ya?

You are wrong, it is something...

From Wikipedia:

In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation(or quantum vacuum fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.


Note the word "change". Science maybe doesn't know yet what specifically is bringing about this change or "fluctuation", but that's no reason to just make s**t up like you are doing. Universal consciousness my a**.

The point is there is something occurring, something happening, or something going on at the quantum level which causes these things. If it was pure nothingness as you say, then there would be absolutely nothing happening, no fluctuations whatsoever and there would be no "appearances" for us to identify as real or otherwise.

 

[godnotgod]

You are wrong, it is something...

From Wikipedia:

In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation(or quantum vacuum fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.


Note the word "change". Science maybe doesn't know yet what specifically is bringing about this change or "fluctuation", but that's no reason to just make s**t up like you are doing. Universal consciousness my a**.

The point is there is something occurring, something happening, or something going on at the quantum level which causes these things. If it was pure nothingness as you say, then there would be absolutely nothing happening, no fluctuations whatsoever and there would be no "appearances" for us to identify as real or otherwise.

Fluctuations are not things, but end up acting as if they are, such as 'atoms'. Hence, 'virtual' mass.

You are still not connecting the dots, and still caught in the shadowy world of Time, Space, and Causation.

Science sees 'change', but science is just an extension of perceptual reality. Any such 'change' is illusory.

When fluctuations create virtual mass, there is information involved. That is where Consciousness comes in.

If anyone is making s**t up, it is the Unified Field. It is having a ball making up the s**t that we call 'The Universe' and making believers like you think it to be real. Why, you even have the authority of Holy Science on your side to prove it! They keep lying to you and you keep believing their crap. Currently, science has reached a point of critical mass of their crap, and they've got us up to here with it. Oh, but not to worry. SOMEDAY they will have The Answer. Why, just look at all their progress! We have at least TEN, (count'em) TEN theories, none of which are conclusive, while Quantum Physics has turned the apple cart up on its end. We now know Pure Jack S**t about nada. Zilch. Nothingness. Wrong path.

3 blind men:

"Here is the elephant", touching the ear.

"No, no!" THIS is him, I am sure of it", touching the trunk.

"Ah, at last, here is the elephant", touching the tail.

You had claimed to be a materialist, but there is no such material for you to attach yourself to. 'You', in fact, do not exist.

Even if your were correct, the moment you claim the existence of 'something', you, unwittingly, have, in that very moment, also created the existence of Nothingness, as 'something' cannot exist without there first being No-Thing; just as solid cannot exist without its surround space; just as sound cannot exist without the backgfound of Silence; just as change cannot exist without it's background of 'The Changeless'. Everything is totally dependent upon Nothing in order to be. Everything comes out of Nothing. Pure Absolute Nothing, and because there is Nothing, there is Everything. How else could it possibly be?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Fluctuations are not things, but end up acting as if they are, such as 'atoms'. Hence, 'virtual' mass.

You are still not connecting the dots, and still caught in the shadowy world of Time, Space, and Causation.

Science sees 'change', but science is just an extension of perceptual reality. Any such 'change' is illusory.

When fluctuations create virtual mass, there is information involved. That is where Consciousness comes in.

If anyone is making s**t up, it is the Unified Field. It is having a ball making up the s**t that we call 'The Universe' and making believers like you think it to be real. Why, you even have the authority of Holy Science on your side to prove it! They keep lying to you and you keep believing their crap. Currently, science has reached a point of critical mass of their crap, and they've got us up to here with it. Oh, but not to worry. SOMEDAY they will have The Answer. Why, just look at all their progress! We have at least TEN, (count'em) TEN theories, none of which are conclusive, while Quantum Physics has turned the apple cart up on its end. We now know Pure Jack S**t about nada. Zilch. Nothingness. Wrong path.

3 blind men:

"Here is the elephant", touching the ear.

"No, no!" THIS is him, I am sure of it", touching the trunk.

"Ah, at last, here is the elephant", touching the tail.

You had claimed to be a materialist, but there is no such material for you to attach yourself to. 'You', in fact, do not exist.

Even if your were correct, the moment you claim the existence of 'something', you, unwittingly, have, in that very moment, also created the existence of Nothingness, as 'something' cannot exist without there first being No-Thing; just as solid cannot exist without its surround space; just as sound cannot exist without the backgfound of Silence; just as change cannot exist without it's background of 'The Changeless'. Everything is totally dependent upon Nothing in order to be. Everything comes out of Nothing. Pure Absolute Nothing, and because there is Nothing, there is Everything. How else could it possibly be?

For those fluctuations to "act as if" or "create" or "give the illusion of" means those fluctuations are doing something. It means there are genuine interactions and changes going on within the field to cause appearance of solid matter. I don't consider that to be absolutely nothing. "Something" is always preceded by something else.

 

[idav]

A boson is a virtual particle.

Virtual doesn't mean nothing. Its more of a frequency which is something. For example a wave travels through a medium because there is something to vibrate.

 

[godnotgod]

For those fluctuations to "act as if" or "create" or "give the illusion of" means those fluctuations are doing something. It means there are genuine interactions and changes going on within the field to cause appearance of solid matter. I don't consider that to be absolutely nothing. "Something" is always preceded by something else.

Logic tells me that the interactions are not necessarily 'genuine'.

When you dream you are a dragon-slayer, is there REALLY a dragon-slayer, slaying dragons? Or are these "interactions" merely an illusion?

You seem to already accept that these fluctuations are creating virtual mass which 'acts as if' they were real. If that is the case, it may be that those fluctuations are not even real, just as the rope is not really a writhing snake.

What's that you say? 'appearance of solid matter'? You are no longer a materialist?

 

[godnotgod]

Virtual doesn't mean nothing. Its more of a frequency which is something. For example a wave travels through a medium because there is something to vibrate.

Do you mean a 'material' something?

Can a thought vibrate?

 

[godnotgod]

"First of all, the materialist used to be comforted by the evident solidity, and hence reality, of matter. Dr. Johnson refutes Berkeley by kicking the table (or something). Yet now the physicists have delivered up atoms that, but for a few subatomic particles, are empty space. Indeed, although this is rarely stated openly and flatly, atoms are entirely empty place, [sic] since the fundamental subatomic particles (quarks and leptons) are "Dirac Point Particles" which have no extension. Popular "string theory" doesn't help this, since the strings are one dimensional objects which do not fill space any more than the point particles. This means that all that actually fills space are fields, and there is no agreement in physics about what a field is (with different versions in Relativity and Quantum Mechanics). So all the comforting solidity of matter has evaporated into thin, nebulous, and uncertain alternatives."

http://www.friesian.com/nothing.htm

IOW, there is no 'matter' as such. Instead, there is no-thing.

Since atoms are 99.999999999999% empty space, materialists should instead call themselves 'spacists'.

 

[idav]

Do you mean a 'material' something?

Can a thought vibrate?