If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[godnotgod]

So true, because the unknown is a rather large 873 kilogram gorilla in the room. It's so much better to throw a table cloth over it and pretend it isn't what it is.

What you're missing here is that great doubt is the key to enlightenment in the East. The Unknown, The Great Mystery, can only be entered into when all else is dropped.

 

[godnotgod]

Meditative states are just meditative states.

Your Buddhism is a dead intellectual Buddhism. You mistake the mechanics of Buddhism for the living experience of Awakening. How sad.

 

[metis]

Buddhadharma teaches dependent arising, or conditionality, this the middle way between existence and non-existence. Hence sunyata, emptiness.

Yes, and I have seen this misunderstood so many times over the years. "Emptiness" is not nihilism but is the recognition that nothing appears to be stand-alone and/or unchanging.

 

[metis]

Your Buddhism is a dead intellectual Buddhism. You mistake the mechanics of Buddhism for the living experience of Awakening. How sad.

How Zen of you. But there are other rafts.

 

[godnotgod]

You are misunderstanding where I'm coming from on this, and where I'm coming from is that which is frequently discussed in Buddhist circles. Yes, there are various teachings on the issue of nirvana, which of course must be interpreted, but the other thing that's terribly important is that Buddhists are not bound by dogmatic beliefs. The Buddha said that his teachings should not be accepted at face value but should be "tested by fire", and this is what I am saying.

IOW, I'm not trying to change the teachings but merely stating that they are to be tested by our own experiences* and observations* through meditation. As I mentioned in a previous post, we're making a mistake if we apply Abrahamic approaches when it comes to trying to understand dharma.


* these also include study and logic.

I have no objection to what you say here, but let us look, then, at what I posted. It says that the extinction of desire, hatred, and illusion are the Absolute:

"O bhikkhus, what is the Absolute (Asaṃkhata, Unconditioned)? It is, O bhikkhus, the extinction of desire (rāgakkhayo) the extinction of hatred (dosakkhayo), the extinction of illusion (mohakkhayo).

This, O bhikkhus, is called the Absolute."

So what here should be 'tested by fire'? What is not crystal clear to you that we can accept and agree on the meaning of what is being said? Extinction is pretty clear as to its meaning. It means there is no trace left of that which is extinguished.

 

[godnotgod]

How Zen of you. But there are other rafts.

It is not Zen. it is beyond Zen. That is the one Great Ocean. The raft is to be left behind once the Ocean is crossed. Remember?

A stagnant backwater legalistic and mechanistic teaching is not the Ocean the Buddha had in mind.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

How Zen of you. But there are other rafts.

He ain't Zen at all. I know some real Zennies and they are NOTHING like that, they have a simple grounded practice and wouldn't touch all that pretentious new-age crap he spouts with a barge-pole.
His continuous stream of BS is diametrically opposed to authentic Zen practice. He is really a Deepak Chopra clone.

One minute he's pretending to be a Hindu, a Buddhist the next, it's all a sham, smoke and mirrors. Basically he is a new-age conman who regularly hijacks threads here to have a good trolling session.
He is not the least bit interested in what you or anyone else has to say.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes, and I have seen this misunderstood so many times over the years. "Emptiness" is not nihilism but is the recognition that nothing appears to be stand-alone and/or unchanging.

Another common misunderstanding is trying to make emptiness into an absolute.

 

[metis]

It is not Zen. it is beyond Zen. That is the one Great Ocean. The raft is to be left behind once the Ocean is crossed. Remember?

A stagnant backwater legalistic and mechanistic teaching is not the Ocean the Buddha had in mind.

First of all, how is it that you supposedly know what the Buddha had in mind? He did teach, did he not?

But I do tend to agree with your drift-- just that you went a wee bit too far with it.

 

[metis]

He ain't Zen at all. I know some real Zennies and they are NOTHING like that, they have a simple grounded practice and wouldn't touch all that pretentious new-age crap he spouts with a barge-pole.
His continuous stream of BS is diametrically opposed to authentic Zen practice. He is really a Deepak Chopra clone.

One minute he's pretending to be a Hindu, a Buddhist the next, it's all a sham, smoke and mirrors. Basically he is a new-age conman who regularly hijacks threads here to have a good trolling session.
He is not the least bit interested in what you or anyone else has to say.

Which is why I put the in.

But, the "flash of intuition" approach is actually quite Zen, and it can be very interesting watching a debate between a Zen practitioner versus one from another raft because they typically can't even start out on the same page on this.

 

[metis]

Another common misunderstanding is trying to make emptiness into an absolute.

"The Middle Path"-- which even itself shouldn't be taken as an absolute, and I am absolutely correct on this.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But, the "flash of intuition" approach is actually quite Zen, and it can be very interesting watching a debate between a Zen practitioner versus one from another raft because they typically can't even start out on the same page on this.

Yeah, I do know some Zennies, but like I said there definitely none in this thread. You're not seeing "intuition", just cliches continually regurgitated, we've seen it all before many times.

I've practised in all the main Buddhist traditions over a period of time, including Zen, so I get that there are different approaches and I'm familiar with what they are.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

"The Middle Path"-- which even itself shouldn't be taken as an absolute, and I am absolutely correct on this.

It is what it is. Buddhist teaching. But of course it's really about practice, developing some insight into how stuff arises and ceases - sensations, sights, sounds, states of mind, and so on. Mindfulness. Actually what I do these days is very Zen, a simple no-frills practice.

 

[godnotgod]

First of all, how is it that you supposedly know what the Buddha had in mind? He did teach, did he not?

But I do tend to agree with your drift-- just that you went a wee bit too far with it.

There is only One Reality. When you can experience what the Buddha experienced, there is no difference; no matter of opinion; no self-view. Reality is beyond all self views. This One Reality is unconditioned, uncaused, ungrown. It is already in place, and not something that is achieved or won. When desire, hatred, and illusion are extinguished, the consciousness with which the Buddha experienced Nirvana with is the exact same consciousness that we have. That is why the Buddha said that Ordinary Mind is the same as Buddha Mind, and that all sentient beings have Buddha nature. It is not Something Special; it is Nothing Special. campeche?

 

[metis]

There is only One Reality. When you can experience what the Buddha experienced, there is no difference; no matter of opinion; no self-view. Reality is beyond all self views. This One Reality is unconditioned, uncaused, ungrown. It is already in place, and not something that is achieved or won. When desire, hatred, and illusion are extinguished, the consciousness with which the Buddha experienced Nirvana with is the exact same consciousness that we have. That is why the Buddha said that Ordinary Mind is the same as Buddha Mind, and that all sentient beings have Buddha nature. It is not Something Special; it is Nothing Special. campeche?

And how many angels do you figger can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[metis]

It is what it is. Buddhist teaching. But of course it's really about practice, developing some insight into how stuff arises and ceases - sensations, sights, sounds, states of mind, and so on. Mindfulness. Actually what I do these days is very Zen, a simple no-frills practice.

The closest I get to Zen is my yard downstate, which I call "Mediterranean Zen"-- Japanese/Mediterranean style-- sorta like pasta with an egg roll.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

-- Japanese/Mediterranean style-- sorta like pasta with an egg roll.

Interesting combination.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And how many angels do you figger can dance on the head of a pin?

You will get a different answer on the next page anyway. And the next.

And then when you question the randomness of his answers, he will insult you and tell you that are stupid.

 

[godnotgod]

Yeah, I do know some Zennies, but like I said there definitely none in this thread. You're not seeing "intuition", just cliches continually regurgitated, we've seen it all before many times.

I've practised in all the main Buddhist traditions over a period of time, including Zen, so I get that there are different approaches and I'm familiar with what they are.

You have the menu of Zen, but unfortunately have missed the meal. You're just a braggart whose sound and fury signify nothing, an empty shell of what is Buddhism.

 

[godnotgod]

And how many angels do you figger can dance on the head of a pin?

Where is this relevant to what I've said, and can you address my post, or not?