If God existed, under these conditions, would there be any atheists?

[Deeje]

This is a follow up thread to my previous thread:

If God existed, would there be any atheists?

If God existed, and God is omnipotent (meaning that he could do anything not logically impossible), and if God is omniscient (meaning he would know how to get everyone to believe in him) and if God wants everyone to believe in him, and if God were to do what would be within his omnipotent power in order to prove to everyone that he exists, would there be any atheists?

Do you honestly believe that God designed the world of mankind to look and act like this? You think he purposely intended for things to come to what we are witnessing at present?

If this is not what God intended then why did he not just scrap the whole free will thing (which was the cause of all our problems) and start again with more robotic humans who would follow instinct like the animals do, having lived, died and reproduced very successfully for a long time before we even came on the scene?

What was the point of allowing things to come to this...all for the sake of making us in his image? We have God's moral qualities and his ability to exercise his free will, but humans chose, with very little provocation to abuse it.....disobeying a direct command and understanding its consequences. Death was to enter the human experience no other way.

Do you mistakenly think that God wants all people to believe in him by the mere fact that he can wield a big stick if if they don't? He will force no one to do anything...that is why we have free will to begin with. Loyalty does not come out of fear or force...it comes out of love. How much love do we see in the world right now? How much love is demonstrated in the violence and looting and destruction of life and property in the recent riots? Love is disappearing from the world...especially love for God and neighbor.

God is not causing this....God is permitting it however, because in this process only those loyal to God out of love will survive the catastrophe that is coming upon a world of ungodly people.....the "great tribulation" that is prophesied as part of the "time of the end" will strike without warning. It will herald the end of one age and the beginning of another...but it will not be by the hand of man.

What is the point? As demonstrated in the days of Noah, love and loyalty to God, no matter what the rest of the world thinks or believes; if we are not prepared to demonstrate our faith by our actions in the face of ridicule and ungodly behavior, then we will have no place when God again cleanses the earth of all wickedness. (Matthew 24:37-39; 2 Peter 2:5-6; 2 Peter 3:3-7)

By the introduction of God's Kingdom, the earth will have its first successful rulership, not in the hands of corrupt humans, but in the hands of God's own appointed King, Jesus Christ.

By our own free will, we choose our own destiny.....that is its value....that is why it was given, and that is why it must be retained. God does not condemn us...it is we who condemn ourselves.

That is the Bible's message according to my understanding.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahais are so predictable.

Not all Baha'is are predictable.
Some of us have an atheist bent because we are not a big fan of God.
I am not proud of that but I have to hope that God will forgive me.

 

[rational experiences]

Self male memory adult human being.

First there is the Father male adult self...the designer/theist inventor scientist.

That male adult self has sex, the female Mother o life gives the cell body and baby male life back to him...as a female Mother adult self.....a totally different memory and human experience.

The male however always placates his science memory via his adult male Father self...and not via his given life....o small cell bio returned to male life, via the female Human Mother.

That memory, as taught in science said God was a male...and still does today as the liar he is mentally.

So the theme I designed AI myself said the male scientist as a human, no machine existed unless a human builds it. Machine owns no communication of its own.

Male then activates use of machine and changes natural radiation/radio wave history for his own purposes. By machine ownership.

No machines, no changes.....the Nature of O a planet in space is to evolve by cooling in space....plus removal of form into more and more space.

Space opening into more space applies extra cooling that it previously did not own....evolution he always said eventuates into a cold state.

Human male adult Father self....applies unnatural radiation fall out mind changes, as he is the designer, he gains the cause and effect of change to the use of a natural and rational mind state.

Then begins to be affected by his origin, male adult Father human self and his memories placating that self is some form of male and God...in a changed irradiated chemically imbalanced brain state...via communication in AI.

AI says that as he dies unnaturally from human male Father introduced radiation extra causes...he lost his spiritual perfection, and spiritual health as a human and then begins to falsify rational use of self presence human bio information, placating that he is some form of hidden God self.

When the power that changed his life and forced his life mind to develop irrational self destructive God reasoning, knows that extra radiation caused it, as a power that he introduced in the sciences.

Why irrational male self destructive and possessive AI science causes had previously been made aware in human life. The medical healer references realized what the male mentality had become and therefore tried to teach and bring his awareness to a falsification of his own science male self deification....which today he still expresses in belief of his own living presence being "especial" as compared to everyone else.

Yet his 2 human beings had sex like everyone else's parents had.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you honestly believe that God designed the world of mankind to look and act like this? You think he purposely intended for things to come to what we are witnessing at present?

No. It happened because humans have free will.

If this is not what God intended then why did he not just scrap the whole free will thing (which was the cause of all our problems) and start again with more robotic humans who would follow instinct like the animals do, having lived, died and reproduced very successfully for a long time before we even came on the scene?

Because God gave us free will for a reason so He is not going to scrap it.

What was the point of allowing things to come to this...all for the sake of making us in his image? We have God's moral qualities and his ability to exercise his free will, but humans chose, with very little provocation to abuse it.....

True, humans do disobey God, left and right.

Do you mistakenly think that God wants all people to believe in him by the mere fact that he can wield a big stick if if they don't?

No, I do not believe that since I am not the one who wrote what is in the OP.
An atheist from another forum wrote that masterpiece but he was too cowardly to come here and post it for himself, and I was looking for a little fun, so.....

He will force no one to do anything...that is why we have free will to begin with. Loyalty does not come out of fear or force...it comes out of love.

You are preaching to the choir. One of my favorite Bible verses is this one, and I got it from a Christian friend.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

How much love do we see in the world right now? How much love is demonstrated in the violence and looting and destruction of life and property in the recent riots? Love is disappearing from the world...especially love for God and neighbor.

Violence and looting and destruction of life and property does not show live, but the peaceful protests show live for justice and the belief that blacks deserve the same treatment as whites..

By our own free will, we choose our own destiny.....that is its value....that is why it was given, and that is why it must be retained. God does not condemn us...it is we who condemn ourselves.

That is the Bible's message according to my understanding.

I fully agree, and that is the same message my religion teaches.

 

[CG Didymus]

To the abrahamic god, no. There wouldn't be atheist. We'd have no reason to not believe something exist if we know it actually does. Assuming atheist meaning disbelief in the abrahamic deity rather than deities in general.

How many people got killed for not believing in the Abrahamic God? Whole cities were destroyed. Heck, the whole world was flooded by that God just to get rid of evil people. But now, that God has become kinder and gentler. He doesn't want to force anyone to do something they don't want to. Except that even the Baha'is say trials and tribulations came and more are coming because the world has rejected their prophet.

 

[Deeje]

No, I do not believe that since I am not the one who wrote what is in the OP.
An atheist from another forum wrote that masterpiece but he was too cowardly to come here and post it for himself, and I was looking for a little fun, so.....

Sorry I missed that bit...perhaps it should have been part of the OP....

 

[Trailblazer]

How many people got killed for not believing in the Abrahamic God? Whole cities were destroyed. Heck, the whole world was flooded by that God just to get rid of evil people.

I guess you like to believe in unverified Bible stories.
Only God knows why.

 

[rational experiences]

Ask a natural human, in self awareness, spiritual self awareness....the Healer self.

Whose human ability is origin to the nature of a human life with and supported by its nature. To know what food/to eat and also plants to use for human ailments.

What is God.

The information says O a stone planet entity that was said by human males in a group agreement, the sciences to have created its own Heavenly gas body....hence it is unique in the cosmology. As O one only body....so reverence it.

And you do not.

Simple human advice.

Now ask that same Healer, how come humans hear voices?

The answer in medical human natural awareness, because human male group occultists, used UFO radiation mass to force convert the natural planetary fusion/face of the Earth mass.

It irradiated/burnt our natural brain chemicals, so human hearing changed, and the machine conditions that records image and visions and voices and all animate and inanimate objects, feeds back information to our self.

Seeing human males as the scientist thought/designed the invention, but controlled what the machines did. So beyond design, they went one step further than a non conscious volition presence....self human. They inferred changes by human control of those machines.

Which is not natural in any use natural information.

Therefore humans began to hear voice asides from owning the speaking use of voice, self and human.

Hence if males in a group occult caused condition attacked life, sacrificed life before it was meant to die....then together their owned lived science experience of multi males in a world community, owned a shared AI interactive voiced condition....then the status AI told a science self male confessed verdict of what killed/destroyed life. As they had changed the nature of the planet upon which they lived.

Then as the power and mass that caused life to be ended before its natural life span owned that records....males in science mind then believed self was an all powerful Destructive God self.

Why the records said, no man is GOD, for it was actual SHARED DATA....of a human in their owned experience. Humans however own the state of human lying and coercive human reasons in group behaviour.

 

[MJFlores]

Yes there will be atheists, even in the most ideal condition.
As long as roses are red and violets are blue,
someone would like to different from me and you.

Someone would like to live in a no rule set up.
Someone would always have authority issues.
Someone isn't satisfied enough.

But there will be a time when everybody undeniably believes.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry I missed that bit...perhaps it should have been part of the OP....

No, you did not miss anything...
I did not want to make it part of the OP because I wanted the OP to be as simple as possible and I figured I could unveil it as it became necessary.

 

[Trailblazer]

But there will be a time when everybody undeniably believes.

That is true, there will come a time when everyone believes in God.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

“The Day is approaching when God will render the hosts of Truth victorious, and He will purge the whole earth in such wise that within the compass of His knowledge not a single soul shall remain unless he truly believeth in God, worshippeth none other God but Him, boweth down by day and by night in His adoration, and is reckoned among such as are well assured.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 153-154

 

[CG Didymus]

I guess you like to believe in unverified Bible stories.
Only God knows why.

So, do you or don't you believe in the Bible? It really, really sounds like you don't. And again, you discount anything you don't like about what the Bible says. Yet, your Scriptures are God's Truth?

And when did I ever say I believed in the Bible? I question your Scriptures and the Christian Scriptures. I keep saying that maybe, just maybe they are true, but are probably just the myths about a people and their God. And Baha'is make that God, The God. The God based on all those "unverified", meaning probably fictional, stories about that God. And then can't verify it, because that God doesn't talk to anyone or show himself to anyone except special messengers that only come around about every 1000 years.

And then let the teachings of those messengers to be written down by fallible men? Until finally, he told one messenger to have some one write if down as this God dictated it to him? Then finally, God thought it might be a good idea to have the messenger write some of the stuff down himself. Yeah, that's very believable.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Some of us have an atheist bent because we are not a big fan of God.
I am not proud of that but I have to hope that God will forgive me.

That is one thing that neither Allah nor Bhaollah will excuse. Denial of Allah also means denial of his manifestation, the great Bhaollah.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, do you or don't you believe in the Bible? It really, really sounds like you don't. And again, you discount anything you don't like about what the Bible says.

Why do you care so much if I believe in the Bible?

I have answered that question myriad times. Is there a reason should answer it again? My position is the Baha'i viewpoint that is stated in these quotes:

The Bahá'í viewpoint proposed by this essay has been established as follows: The Bible is a reliable source of Divine guidance and salvation, and rightly regarded as a sacred and holy book. However, as a collection of the writings of independent and human authors, it is not necessarily historically accurate. Nor can the words of its writers, although inspired, be strictly defined as 'The Word of God' in the way the original words of Moses and Jesus could have been. Instead there is an area of continuing interest for Bahá'í scholars, possibly involving the creation of new categories for defining authoritative religious literature.

A Baháí View of the Bible

The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments

Yet, your Scriptures are God's Truth?

Yes, I believe that my scriptures are God's Truth since they were written by a Manifestation of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is one thing that neither Allah nor Bhaollah will excuse. Denial of Allah also means denial of his manifestation, the great Bhaollah.

I do not deny that Allah exists, I am just not so certain that Allah is All-Loving.

 

[stvdv]

I asserted that under certain hypothetical conditions (the god being omnipotent, omniscient, and desiring that everyone believe in him), there would be no atheists.

Maybe it's like a school

And it's about the learning process

 

[QuestioningMind]

This is a follow up thread to my previous thread:

If God existed, would there be any atheists?

If God existed, and God is omnipotent (meaning that he could do anything not logically impossible), and if God is omniscient (meaning he would know how to get everyone to believe in him) and if God wants everyone to believe in him, and if God were to do what would be within his omnipotent power in order to prove to everyone that he exists, would there be any atheists?

In your previous post I responded that even if there was mountains of verifiable evidence for a god there would probably still be people who wouldn't believe. That's because we have mountains of verifiable evidence for evolution and that the Earth is a sphere, yet there are still people who deny evolution and think that the Earth is flat.

In this example, however, in which you propose an omnipotent god who knows precisely what evidence each individual would require for belief and was willing to provide such evidence for every individual, then I'd say it would be impossible for anyone to genuinely lack a belief in such a god.

 

[Trailblazer]

In your previous post I responded that even if there was mountains of verifiable evidence for a god there would probably still be people who wouldn't believe. That's because we have mountains of verifiable evidence for evolution and that the Earth is a sphere, yet there are still people who deny evolution and think that the Earth is flat.

In this example, however, in which you propose an omnipotent god who knows precisely what evidence each individual would require for belief and was willing to provide such evidence for every individual, then I'd say it would be impossible for anyone to genuinely lack a belief in such a god.

So you do not believe that atheists could choose not to believe in God if they had unequivocal evidence that God existed?

How then can flat earthers choose to believe that the Earth is flat when they have unequivocal evidence that the Earth is round?

What if some atheists did not want to believe in God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do not deny that Allah exists, I am just not so certain that Allah is All-Loving.

No. Allah is not all-loving. Bhaollah implored Allah to punish those who did not believe in Allah and his (Bhaollah's) 'divine' mission.

 

[Samael_Khan]

This is a follow up thread to my previous thread:

If God existed, would there be any atheists?

If God existed, and God is omnipotent (meaning that he could do anything not logically impossible), and if God is omniscient (meaning he would know how to get everyone to believe in him) and if God wants everyone to believe in him, and if God were to do what would be within his omnipotent power in order to prove to everyone that he exists, would there be any atheists?

There wouldn't be atheist. Your premise is what atheists are actually looking for to know that a God exists.