the_naturalist
Member
If god gave us free will, why are we damned if we chose wrongly, need answers !
Thank you
The naturalist
Thank you
The naturalist
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If god gave us free will, why are we damned if we chose wrongly, need answers !
- Thread starter the_naturalist
- Start date
dust1n
Zindīq
Sorry.. you won't get a coherent answer to this one.
the_naturalist
Member
Lava, the concept of giving is to give without receiving ... Your intepretation of God's gift of "free will" is really God lending me "free will" ... Which is it ?
tarasan
Well-Known Member
one of the great irionaries of life,
"we all have free will, you have no choice in the matter"
well i guess my layman response would be to say that ultiamtely you know the score, you know that you have free will, you know you have done wrong, etc, therefore its not as if you are ignorant of the fact. ultimately you cant not have free will cause you would be well you.... i mean which would you have non existance or free will?
btw from the biblical perspective everyone is given an opertunity to respond to God, just so we can lay that one out.
slightly disjointed but i think thats my statement
the_naturalist
Member
Seneca, your response, to say the least, is utterly incomprehensible ... What are you stating !
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Who??
mickiel
Well-Known Member
According to my understanding, your in error on both assumptions. God has not given us free will, and he willnot " Damn" anyone. This then has crippled your view of things. " Free will" is an illusion. If a person had free will, that means that they are not influenced by anything in their consciousness and can make uninhibited decisions. Look man, thats fantasy island, no human can think uninhibited by outside forces, nobody! I don't care what you face, you do not face it alone, there will always be outside influence on your thinking, such is not freedom of will. Its just a limited capacity of thought, free will is an island none of us has really been on.
We just like to think we have.
And listen, NONE of us are dammed! There is no condemnation in the real God, NONE! We were created to live, we may have to die once, but human destiny is not to be condemned.
Peace.
.lava
Veteran Member
.lava
Veteran Member
there is no will without boundaries. we have options and they are not infinite either. we have free wills to chose between options given but we can not force and make up or create new options. if we could, i would live in another planet. yes IMO we are lent everything we have. we have them for a certain amount of time. when our time is up they are all taken away
.
tarasan
Well-Known Member
my response is that while granted you had no choice to have free will you still know what is right and wrong and you know the consequences, so im fairly certian he can dam you....
its like the laws of society I mightnt agree with them all but its still my responsiblity to keep them and its ultimetly my fault if I break them, not societies.
the_naturalist
Member
Good critical thinking --- very rational --- very reasonable
tarasan
Well-Known Member
awesome do you have a point underneath the sarcasm, or shall we all behave like were five?
do you blame society for enforcing laws you didnt agree to or yourself?
I mean so long as you know the rules u are responsible for what you do.
so have a proper response?
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Well! Of all the stupid posts I have ever encountered, the OP has to be right up there.
1) God gave us free will - therefore, we can choose to do right or wrong.
2) If you choose to do wrong, you are punished.
What is the confusion about? Seems plenty straight forward to me.
1) God gave us free will - therefore, we can choose to do right or wrong.
2) If you choose to do wrong, you are punished.
What is the confusion about? Seems plenty straight forward to me.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Tarasan and I don't agree on many things, but it seems to me he gave a pretty good answer.
1) God gave free will.
2) god said don't do bad things.
3) if you choose to do bad things, its your fault.
4) blaming god for your fault is just dumb.
5) I don't see any relation between free will and being mindless.
1) God gave free will.
2) god said don't do bad things.
3) if you choose to do bad things, its your fault.
4) blaming god for your fault is just dumb.
5) I don't see any relation between free will and being mindless.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
We are not free in our wills, we are held captive by many things. Ourselves, our children, our jobs, our neighborhood, our vehicles, our homes, our health, our time, our finances, our weaknesses; any of these things can assert themselves at anytime in our lives and affect our will. Change our will. Stomp our will.
And show you how unfree your will really is.
Peace.
And show you how unfree your will really is.
Peace.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
I have argued that we don't really have free will elsewhere, but this thread is about god's hypocrisy as seen by the naturalist IMO.
Levite
Higher and Higher
I don't think we are. Fortunately, Judaism does not have an official doctrine of damnation, or Hell (though there has been on and off folk belief in a purgatory-like place, though this was never institutionalized as dogma). I personally think we are given free will because God wants other thinking creatures unbound to His will that He can relate to and have relationships with, who will grow and evolve. And the only way to grow and evolve is to be able to make mistakes. Of course, making mistakes can sometimes be a result of stupidity, or poor choices, in which case we must make amends; but that is why I believe in repentance, and in reincarnation.
No God I would believe in would damn people to eternal torment. I think that's a hideous theology.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Free will is believed because humans think we have it all. We have consciousness, we have life, so then we must have a certain amount of " Control over some of this", thus the belief in the freedom of will. We must have some kind of control. So then free will is our expression of self control, thinking we are the determinant factor. We are responsible for our lives, our children, our destiny.
Free will is at its root, a control issue, and oh how we must have self control.
Nobody, even believers in God, wants to relinquish that control. So we elevate our ability to control in order to pacify our need to have something to do with our consciousness. We NEED that indiviuality, less we think somethingelse controls us.
Listen, with God, there is no other control.
Peace.