If God is evil...

[Midnight Pete]

Well yes God is a big crybaby. No I don't worship him, but I don't go telling people that he doesn't exst ether. I don't want to be for hm nor do I want to be against him. I want to remain in a netural ground. IF that is all possible.

Your neutrality is already shot. You insulted God.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I have had some really crazy thoughts regarding Jesus last super, his resurrection and the partaking in flesh and blood. Even though I know those are just symbols. The wine and bread.

In all my years as a Catholic I have never consumed actual human tissues. That would be the kind of thing devil-worshippers woud do during a Black Mass, just to mock the Eucharist and insult God.

 

[Gloone]

In all my years as a Catholic I have never consumed actual human tissues. That would be the kind of thing devil-worshippers woud do during a Black Mass, just to mock the Eucharist and insult God.

So if I am not mistaken those are the words given by Jesus. "Drink this wine, for it is my blood, drink it in remembrance of me. Take this bread, for it is my flesh, eat it in remembrance of me."
What is that suppose to mean anyway?

 

[waitasec]

jesus was the sacrificial lamb chop

 

[Midnight Pete]

So if I am not mistaken those are the words given by Jesus. "Drink this wine, for it is my blood, drink it in remembrance of me. Take this bread, for it is my flesh, eat it in remembrance of me."
What is that suppose to mean anyway?

Jesus likens the wine and bread to his body and blood. The wine clearly isn't his blood, and yet it is. The bread clearly isn't the flesh of Jesus, and yet it is.

I've just realized how poorly I understand the Eucharist.

I apologize.

 

[Gloone]

Jesus likens the wine and bread to his body and blood. The wine clearly isn't his blood, and yet it is. The bread clearly isn't the flesh of Jesus, and yet it is.

I've just realized how poorly I understand the Eucharist.

I apologize.

I don't think that really makes churches evil either. But I mean the potential for it is definitely there.
I have never really felt very welcome at churches either. I remember getting burnt by holy water once. I told my parents/family about and they just laughed and so did I.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I don't think that really makes churches evil either. But I mean the potential for it is definitely there.
I have never really felt very welcome at churches either. I remember getting burnt by holy water once. I told my parents/family about and they just laughed and so did I.

How could holy water burn you?

 

[Tathagata]

Wrathful not-equals evil.
Tyrant crybaby not-equals evil.
Harm not-equals evil.
Hurt my feelings not-equals evil.

Was a time I'd proudly declare, "I don't believe in evil," because it's about as meaningless a thing as you'll encounter. I'd say, "Good contrasts with bad, not evil." Now, in my old age, I'm content to let people have their evil. It's theirs, to have and to hold.

In philosophical terms, "evil" means "suffering." So any act of God's that causes suffering (like global hydro-genocides, turning women into pillars of salt, raining fire and brimstone on towns) is considered "evil."

 

[Gloone]

How could holy water burn you?

You know that is a really good question. Because I am not even real sure. I guess it is because I am a sinner that can't be saved. The Holy Water didn't really burn me, it just singed my skin and a little bit of smoke/vapors arose from it as the priest was walking around with his Aspergillum sprinkling the water on people. Maybe it was because I did not ask to be sprinkled with the holy water.

 

[Gloone]

Yup I am a fallen angel I will never be allowed back into heaven.

 

[Midnight Pete]

In philosophical terms, "evil" means "suffering." So any act of God's that causes suffering (like global hydro-genocides, turning women into pillars of salt, raining fire and brimstone on towns) is considered "evil."

Evil =/= Suffering

Not all suffering is the result of what we call "evil." In fact, suffering can sometimes bring about a positive result. A drug-addicted person going through detox to emerge a happier, healthier, saner person on the other side. Sore muscles that repair themselves and become stronger after the lactic acid buildup has subsided. The emotional pain associated with passing through adolesence. The pain a woman experiences while giving birth to what turns out to be a healthy child, and the indescribably joy she feels when allowed to hold her baby for the first time.

 

[Meow Mix]

Evil =/= Suffering

Not all suffering is the result of what we call "evil." In fact, suffering can sometimes bring about a positive result. A drug-addicted person going through detox to emerge a happier, healthier, saner person on the other side. Sore muscles that repair themselves and become stronger after the lactic acid buildup has subsided. The emotional pain associated with passing through adolesence. The pain a woman experiences while giving birth to what turns out to be a healthy child, and the indescribably joy she feels when allowed to hold her baby for the first time.

Unless the suffering was unnecessary to achieve the same results, in which case...

 

[Erebus]

...would you still worship him/her/them to try to get to heaven/paradise?

Or would you reject them as an evil being(s)?

The reason I ask is because every now and then I talk to theists who -- upon being asked about genocides and wicked, terrible things in some holy text or another -- basically just shrug and basically say "Yeah, God is wrathful. So?"

It always throws me for a loop because I want to say, "And you worship this guy? Why?!"

So, if God is evil -- if God is a vindictive, petty tyrant crybaby of a god that murders people to show the world how awesome he/she is like apparently some people believe he is -- would you still worship him?

For those of you who DO think God is wrathful and vindictive (and what I would call petty), why do you worship such a wicked being? If you believe God is wrathful and all that and DON'T worship him, do you ever worry he's going to lay the smack down on you?

In Demonolatry every deity has an opposite deity, some of which could be considered evil (deities of death, hatred, war etc) but this is simply considered a reflection on the natural order of things. Death makes way for life which will inevitably die and be replaced with new life and so on. While every Demonolater will gravitate towards a particular theme, we try to bear the whole in mind, every deity whether benevolent or destructive has its place in the world and is worthy of respect. So in some cases I do revere (as opposed to worship) several "evil" deities, but I don't consider them to be loathsome since they act in harmony with the whole and are effectively balanced out by their opposites. In a way it can be thought of as nature worship without a bias towards the fuzzy side. I've never understood why some nature worshippers seem to only focus on forests and animals and completely ignore earthquakes and plague.
I guess the difference between these evil gods and the example you gave is that they don't actually require worship. Any God that demands worship instantly puts me off, so I doubt I would worship the God in your example.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Unless the suffering was unnecessary to achieve the same results, in which case...

Wait, are you trying to say that an omnipotent being could bring about any result it desired without the need for suffering? Pfft - what, do you think omnipotent means having unlimited power or something?

 

[Meow Mix]

Wait, are you trying to say that an omnipotent being could bring about any result it desired without the need for suffering? Pfft - what, do you think omnipotent means having unlimited power or something?

If I might be so bold :flirt:

 

[Midnight Pete]

Unless the suffering was unnecessary to achieve the same results, in which case...

In the examples I gave, the suffering *was* necessary.

 

[Gloone]

In the examples I gave, the suffering *was* necessary.

Well I will agree with you on drug abuse. It can definitely change someones life for the better or worse.

 

[Gloone]

... and I think the only reason drugs seem "evil or bad" is because that is what people have been taught their whole life and that is what society wants to label people as that do them.
To be honest I see no difference in prescription drugs and illegal drugs.

"Today teenagers are not using as much cocaine, crack, LSD, and ecstasy as the teenagers of the 1960’s. Kids have found other ways and means to get high; painkillers and other prescription drugs are being abused at record levels. This up coming generation of teens has been given the name “Generation Rx.”

Teens are often getting caught raiding their parent’s or grandparent’s medicine cabinets in order to get high. For the first time, national studies show that today’s teens are more likely to have abused a prescription painkiller than any illicit drug." Teenage Prescription Drug Abuse

This is all in part due to people that feel their is a need for drugs for health related problems and not recreational use. Makes me sick.

 

[Meow Mix]

In the examples I gave, the suffering *was* necessary.

Let's look at your examples and see if suffering could have been avoided with the same results:

1) Drug-addicted person going through detox. (If drugs weren't addictive, why would this example be pertinant at all?)

2) Sore muscles leading to muscle growth. (There's nothing logically contradictory about muscles attaining growth without ever being sore)

3) Emotional pain of adolescence. (This one's not very specific, but I may agree that sentient beings might inevitably be subject to things like unrequited love)

4) Childbearing pain (Again, nothing logically contradictory about giving birth without pain)

All physical suffering is preventable to an omnipotent being. If physical suffering is preventable but it's allowed anyway, that's pretty malevolent if you ask me. If there's a purpose for the suffering, then the person arguing there is a purpose has the onus of proof.

 

[Midnight Pete]

... and I think the only reason drugs seem "evil or bad" is because that is what people have been taught their whole life and that is what society wants to label people as that do them.

That is an interesting view. Dangerously foolish. Willingly stupid.

To be honest I see no difference in prescription drugs and illegal drugs.

The difference is how they're used.

"Today teenagers are not using as much cocaine, crack, LSD, and ecstasy as the teenagers of the 1960’s. Kids have found other ways and means to get high; painkillers and other prescription drugs are being abused at record levels. This up coming generation of teens has been given the name “Generation Rx.”

Teens are often getting caught raiding their parent’s or grandparent’s medicine cabinets in order to get high. For the first time, national studies show that today’s teens are more likely to have abused a prescription painkiller than any illicit drug." Teenage Prescription Drug Abuse

Abuse of prescription drugs is no better or different than abuse of street drugs. Again, it's how they're used.

This is all in part due to people that feel their is a need for drugs for health related problems and not recreational use. Makes me sick.

I just watched a bit of Requiem for a Dream on Youtube. After that, I watched a few documentary-style vids about crystal meth. It showed what happens to peoples' faces and bodies after prolonged meth use. Made me feel ill, like I was going to vomit. It was definitely not for the kids.