If hypothetically a man actually did what Jesus did in the 1st century would it occur like the story

[amorphous_constellation]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

 

[Bunyip]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

Well anyone with a vested interest in the healthcare industry or agriculture would want him dead. Pharmaceutical companies, agricultural collectives - any member of an economy based on trade.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well anyone with a vested interest in the healthcare industry or agriculture would want him dead. Pharmaceutical companies, agricultural collectives - any member of an economy based on trade.

I didn't consider that, but you mean for if there was a modern incarnation right? I'm more talking about the 1st century situation, where I assume the lepers and the starving could be cured of their ills without that kind of caveat.

 

[Bunyip]

I didn't consider that, but you mean for if there was a modern incarnation right? I'm more talking about the 1st century situation, where I assume the lepers and the starving could be cured of their ills without that kind of caveat.

He would be anathema to the entire hierarchy of the ancient world and destroyed the minute they found him.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

He would be anathema to the entire hierarchy of the ancient world and destroyed the minute they found him.

Really? A man with actual proven magical powers would be put to death? Keeping in mind that no one has ever done anything like that before, the earthlings would not be inspired to total awe?

 

[Bunyip]

Really? A man with actual proven magical powers would be put to death? Keeping in mind that no one has ever done anything like that before, the earthlings would not be inspired to total awe?

No, we fear what we do not understand. The reaction would be fear and fury, not awe.

 

[Politesse]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

You specify "in the 1st century", but I think you are overlooking the fact that Rome and Romans had a very different perspective on magic. People in general definitely expected healing and divination and prophecy as simply a normal part of their universe; if a healer gained a reputation it was for being an especially good healer, not because they had broken natural laws or what have you; any old doctor could do that. Nor was the state especially skeptical of magicians, of which they had many on their own retainer. The only disreputable magic was that which came from outside the Empire (like the Galilee), and the only illicit magic was that which might be levied against the state (like that which is in the hands of an accused insurgent). And of course, some of those things (like the virgin birth) would probably have been disbelieved even by his contemporaries if they weren't a member of the movement. Later Pagan writers certainly seemed skeptical of the more godlike bits. So no, I don't think the miracles themselves would have changed the game, as they were very much a part of the cultural expectations of the age.

 

[Politesse]

No, we fear what we do not understand. The reaction would be fear and fury, not awe.

This is kind of the plotline posited by Kazantzakis' Last Temptation of Christ as I recall. Jesus' "inappropriate" resurrection of Lazarus (as a creepy zombie dude) was a major factor in the decision to kill him rather than settling for imprisonment.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

No, we fear what we do not understand. The reaction would be fear and fury, not awe.

It's been a long time since I've read it, but it seems that Mark Twain's 'A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court' told a different story, where the more modern time traveler used the modern 'magic' to his advantage.

 

[Bunyip]

This is kind of the plotline posited by Kazantzakis' Last Temptation of Christ as I recall. Jesus' "inappropriate" resurrection of Lazarus (as a creepy zombie dude) was a major factor in the decision to kill him rather than settling for imprisonment.

Sure, but I don't think proving magical powers would have been particularly interesting to the ancients - magic was everywhere back then.
That was a wonderful movie.

 

[Politesse]

It's been a long time since I've read it, but it seems that Mark Twain's 'A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court' told a different story, where the more modern time traveler used the modern 'magic' to his advantage.

It must have been a long time if you forgot the apocalyptic ending, when the church came down on him and his retinue of child soldiers like a ten ton elephant.

 

[Bunyip]

It's been a long time since I've read it, but it seems that Mark Twain's 'A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court' told a different story, where the more modern time traveler used the modern 'magic' to his advantage.

Yes, that was of course a fantasy novel.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

s. So no, I don't think the miracles themselves would have changed the game, as they were very much a part of the cultural expectations of the age.

Hmm. Well, but who else in this reality could actually do that? In reality, no one anywhere. Unless I'm mistaken, and there were pluralities of people that had the power to heal leprosy or create food with a mere snap of the fingers.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It must have been a long time if you forgot the apocalyptic ending, when the church came down on him and his retinue of child soldiers like a ten ton elephant.

Yeah, I forgot that, but I was just thinking of the first bit where he used a solstice prediction or whatever to spring him out of an execution sentence.

 

[Politesse]

Hmm. Well, but who else in this reality could actually do that? In reality, no one anywhere. Unless I'm mistaken, and there were pluralities of people that had the power to heal leprosy or create food with a mere snap of the fingers.

It was certainly believed that there were. That cultural reality simply was not the same as yours. Ancient Romans were products of their age, just as you are a product of yours.

 

[George-ananda]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

I believe there truly have been miracle workers and not just in ancient times. They are called frauds and hoaxes by the atheist-materialists and revered by the believers.

 

[psychoslice]

I think he would be admitted to a mad house lol.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I think he would be admitted to a mad house lol.

If you can actually perform miracles I don't think anyone's going to admit you to a mad house.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I believe there truly have been miracle workers and not just in ancient times. They are called frauds and hoaxes by the atheist-materialists and revered by the believers.

Looking around the world right now, is there anybody who you'd call an actual performer of magical miracles?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It was certainly believed that there were. That cultural reality simply was not the same as yours. Ancient Romans were products of their age, just as you are a product of yours.

But how about the writer of the New Testament. I submit to you that this person was educated - well of course that's a given, he could write and knew history. Well I also submit that this person knew that magic doesn't exist - and that the New Testament is actually a critique on a society that, believing in magic, may possibly hypothetically reject an actual miracle worker.