If hypothetically a man actually did what Jesus did in the 1st century would it occur like the story

[viole]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

Well, I don't know you, but if I sat close to man on a bus who claimed all these things, ..., I would change sit. Which is, admittedely, a far cry from crucify him.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Curious George]

Counter proposal...

Why would obviously vastly superior beings allow such things to happen to them? In both the alien the analogy and the Jesus comparative, why would magically powerful beings not just make their dominance known? Isn't that what we see from all other examples of human activity and in nature?

Yes, even peaceful creatures can lash out when cornered.

But, maybe more powerful isn't powerful enough. Bears are arguably more powerful creatures but humans have killed them for millennia. But, if you say that humans are more powerful, bears have killed humans for millennia.

 

[jonathan180iq]

How did the deity expect their crucifixion to become popularized? Back then it was probably like 'some rebel gets crucified, big deal, don't talk about that around the dinner table,' when the modern people get, the more exotic a crucifixion looks (since civilized people do that less) and that seemed have enabled Christianity to sustain itself into our time.

I'm basically just poking fun at the idea that it's the greatest story ever told, as if nothing better could be thought up... It's only the greatest story ever told if you keep telling yourself that it is. You know what I'm saying? There are better ways to tell this same story and make it more magical, and fantastic. Still though, I think my question remains. If the whole point of the crucifixion and resurrection was to show the power of god over death or whatever, then why use a protagonist that already had magic powers? It lessens the power of the story, doesn't it? Subjecting an eternal supernatural being to a little harassment isn't real that much of a story, is it?

"And the Alien spacecraft, which had traveled billions of light years, using vastly superior technology to our own, endured a little bit of a waiting period while the puny humans deployed the entirety of their militarized munitions on them. The Aliens weren't really harmed at all and kept right on doing what they were doing..."

There's not much point in pretending that the vastly superior aliens endured some kind of hardship, since they actually didn't, since they're vastly superior...

I don't really understand, and I repeat over and over, why anyone would execute an actual miracle worker, be they a revolutionary or otherwise. Btw if it was electrocution instead and we all had to wear electric chairs around our neck instead of the cross, what would Jesus have said to Thomas? 'But Thomas, look at my hair, it is still frazzled?'

The point is that it wouldn't really matter what we did to those miraculous characters because we would still be subjecting superior beings to inferior punishments or tortures... Choose any execution method that you want. How would that method actually damage an eternal supernatural being?

The answer is simple, in that it wouldn't.

I could raise an ant farm, 100,00 strong. What's the worst my ant colony could inflict on me? Bite me? Bury my finger in the sand while I'm sleeping? None of that would actually affect me much more than an annoyance.

You can ask the question of human behavior if you want to, but I think you're missing a bigger issue. Even if you assume that everything depicted about Jesus in the Bible is true, complete with magic powers, direct commune with an omnipotent being, flight abilities, and so on. And even if you assume that humans would want to kill something like that, why would any of that matter to the superior being? Would it actually be death, since they aren't of this "realm" to being with?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Yes, even peaceful creatures can lash out when cornered.

But, maybe more powerful isn't powerful enough. Bears are arguably more powerful creatures but humans have killed them for millennia. But, if you say that humans are more powerful, bears have killed humans for millennia.

Yes, but in order to take something like miracle claims of magic healing seriously, why stop there? Wouldn't it be just as likely that these mystical beings could stop bullets, or freeze time? We're already delving into the land of imagination in accepting these magic powers, right? The very presence of those magic powers alone mean that the being who have the power is far superior to anything you or I could conjure. They're also more wise and intelligent than anyone else, if you believe the stories, getting direction and giving direction directly from god himself. Why then would these superior beings even be remotely bothered by our best attempts at destroying them?

This Jesus character, (according to his source text the Bible) could fly, walk on water, read people's minds, knew the future, teleport, talk to demons, banish demons, reasonably debate the best minds in the land, and magically heal any/all illness.

What in there makes it reasonable to believe that he was ever subject to the same physical and natural laws as every other thing that ever lived?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well, I don't know you, but if I sat close to man on a bus who claimed all these things, ..., I would change sit. Which is, admittedely, a far cry from crucify him.

I'm not talking about a claim, I'm talking about someone who can actually do these things, that's clear in my OP isn't it?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

. And even if you assume that humans would want to kill something like that, why would any of that matter to the superior being?

Well, the being would think of it as proving some point, of proving that point that we reject stuff that riles up our little cultures or power structures here on earth, I suppose allowing itself to be 'killed' is almost like a form of sarcasm. That's all I really got on that point at the moment.

 

[Curious George]

Yes, but in order to take something like miracle claims of magic healing seriously, why stop there? Wouldn't it be just as likely that these mystical beings could stop bullets, or freeze time? We're already delving into the land of imagination in accepting these magic powers, right? The very presence of those magic powers alone mean that the being who have the power is far superior to anything you or I could conjure. They're also more wise and intelligent than anyone else, if you believe the stories, getting direction and giving direction directly from god himself. Why then would these superior beings even be remotely bothered by our best attempts at destroying them?

This Jesus character, (according to his source text the Bible) could fly, walk on water, read people's minds, knew the future, teleport, talk to demons, banish demons, reasonably debate the best minds in the land, and magically heal any/all illness.

What in there makes it reasonable to believe that he was ever subject to the same physical and natural laws as every other thing that ever lived?

Well I think the xtian belief is that Jesus could have done something but chose to submit to them, only to show that he couldn't be killed.

But, does this play out? I am not sure, it seemed as though his "forsaken me comment" could be interpreted as expecting God to intervene, from which we must wonder if he could have done any different.

However, suppose he could do all of those things but they were limited. Walk on water sure but that doesn't help him when there is no water to run on and your captors are faster. Read minds see, the future: yes but we could say this was true of a person who could only do these things sporadically or with limited control. Fly; maybe he needed a running start, or could only levitate a little bit. Sure he could talk to demons but after banishing so many maybe they were reluctant to help him (I imagine if aqua man abused fish, his ability to talk to fish would do no good because the fish would be like "screw you aqua man." And the ability to banish demons can only help if your captors are demons.

 

[jonathan180iq]

(I imagine if aqua man abused fish, his ability to talk to fish would do no good because the fish would be like "screw you aqua man."

This is one of the best things I've ever read on RF.

 

[Awoon]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

Healings happen all the time. Cut yerself body heals. Feeding people had nothing to do with endless baskets of fish. People simply shared their food with each other. Jesus just happened to be the person to get them to do it instead of being stingy. Many healers were doing as he did 2000 yrs ago. The point is that he was the main character of a new religious story.

 

[outhouse]

Feeding people had nothing to do with endless baskets of fish. People simply shared their food with each other

They did share their food, when they had food.

All we can do is guess behind this legend, it could very well be 100% mythological, and he may have raided a boat or tax collector to feed the hungry, and it was remembered and exploited in myth. We don't know.

 

[paarsurrey]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

1. A number of people were born from virgins.
2. Jesus had no magic powers.
3. Lepers could be healed by physicians and by praying.
4. Bible mentions that other people also did the like thins mentioned in the post.

Regards

 

[jonathan180iq]

A number of people were born from virgins.

Oh please share with us the number of people in born from virgin mothers...

Jesus had no magic powers.

You got that right.

Lepers could be healed by physicians and by praying.

Physicians only

Bible mentions that other people also did the like thins mentioned in the post.

The Bible also says that animals talk and people can be transformed into blocks of salt... There's really no credibility left, is there?

 

[outhouse]

If hypothetically a man actually did what Jesus did in the 1st century would it occur like the story

No it would not.

 

[paarsurrey]

Oh please share with us the number of people in born from virgin mothers...

Here are just 10 people born of a virgin in the ancient world:

• Buddha
• Krishna – born without a sexual union, by “mental transmission” from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki, his mother.
• Odysseus
• Romulus
• Dionysus*
• Heracles – Son of a god (Zeus)
• Glycon – son of the God Apollo
• Zoroaster/Zarathustra
• Attis of Phrygia
• Horus

http://homebrewedchristianity.com/2...born-of-a-virgin-it-happened-a-lot-back-then/

Regards

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Here are just 10 people born of a virgin in the ancient world:

The thread is about if it actually happened, not about the claim. Being born of a virgin is actually the least impressive if compared to the actual miracles this person would do. Again, this thread isn't about the claims, it's about if the story would happen the same way if these types of people actually did these things here on earth, in reality.

 

[outhouse]

Here are just 10 people born of a virgin in the ancient world:

No. Those are ten people reported to as having been born that way, and often in the context of mythology.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

If hypothetically a man actually did what Jesus did in the 1st century would it occur like the story

No it would not.

Go ahead and tell us more on what you think would have happened if there was an actual simulation tested out if you would.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Healings happen all the time. Cut yerself body heals. Feeding people had nothing to do with endless baskets of fish. People simply shared their food with each other. Jesus just happened to be the person to get them to do it instead of being stingy. Many healers were doing as he did 2000 yrs ago. The point is that he was the main character of a new religious story.

I mean literally - if people could literally create those 200 baskets of fish or however many there were, instantly. A long exposure photograph couldn't even show the molecules of it coming together, that's how fast I'm talking.

 

[Tumah]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

I don't think so. Think about it: Back then there were tons of oracles and prophets and other assorted magic-workers walking around. Whether authentic or not, belief in this type of thing seems like it was pretty rampant. So, in your hypothetical case, when news of Jesus reaches someone who hasn't seen him, I imagine the reaction more likely to be, "oh, another one."

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I don't think so. Think about it: Back then there were tons of oracles and prophets and other assorted magic-workers walking around. Whether authentic or not, belief in this type of thing seems like it was pretty rampant. So, in your hypothetical case, when news of Jesus reaches someone who hasn't seen him, I imagine the reaction more likely to be, "oh, another one."

You have a good point, but even so, if there was a magical person out there who was the real deal that might have more repercussions than that. There's a verse where it says he had to send away the hungry or preach from a boat, well the fact is in reality that would quickly turn into non-relenting and constant situation. The people who said 'oh another one' would literally be dragged out to wherever this magician was, I think. The roman empire would recognize it a lot quicker as well, wouldn't they?