If hypothetically a man actually did what Jesus did in the 1st century would it occur like the story

[George-ananda]

Looking around the world right now, is there anybody who you'd call an actual performer of magical miracles?

In India there is Satya Sai Baba who just died in 2011. As I said, revered by the believers and labeled a hoax by the atheist-materialists.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

In India there is Satya Sai Baba who just died in 2011. As I said, revered by the believers and labeled a hoax by the atheist-materialists.

Unless you met him and saw him do something, I'm pretty skeptical, and even then I'm still skeptical.

 

[psychoslice]

If you can actually perform miracles I don't think anyone's going to admit you to a mad house.

Yea, IF lol.

 

[George-ananda]

Unless you met him and saw him do something, I'm pretty skeptical, and even then I'm still skeptical.

You are proving my point: revered by the believers and labeled a hoax by the atheist-materialists.

The above applies to Jesus then as much as it does now. And it would repeat today.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Yea, IF lol.

Yeah if. That's what the thread is about.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

You are proving my point: revered by the believers and labeled a hoax by the atheist-materialists.

The above applies to Jesus then as much as it does now. And it would repeat today.

Well, it's not like this guy you're talking about was reaching out to take a tour of my town. Sure, I'm skeptical. But going back to the OP, I don't think upon actually seeing it they would still really be atheist-materialists. How could they be? Nor would they put such a miracle worker to death, they would be too useful to problems in society - they'd give him a job, they'd say you see that part of town with the lepers? Well, we have a job for you to heal all those people, no one would crucify someone like that.

 

[psychoslice]

Yeah if. That's what the thread is about.

Yes I know, but I just cannot pretend on such thing lol.

 

[George-ananda]

Well, it's not like this guy you're talking about was reaching out to take a tour of my town.

Like Jesus He visited many towns; it's impossible to visit everybody.

Sure, I'm skeptical. But going back to the OP, I don't think upon actually seeing it they would still really be atheist-materialists. How could they be? Nor would they put such a miracle worker to death, they would be too useful to problems in society - they'd give him a job, they'd say you see that part of town with the lepers? Well, we have a job for you to heal all those people, no one would crucify someone like that.

Those who saw were only the tiniest fraction of society. Most of the rest would be happy to scoff it away and say He'd have to show it to me....that hasn't changed.

 

[outhouse]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

That is a good point. Nor would such a person get himself crucified.

 

[Augustus]

Nor would they put such a miracle worker to death, they would be too useful to problems in society - they'd give him a job, they'd say you see that part of town with the lepers? Well, we have a job for you to heal all those people, no one would crucify someone like that.

According to the Bible, how many people witnessed the miracles? It's not like they had Twitter, newspapers and TV chat shows to spread the news. Most people didn't stray far from their home in those days also and 'miracles' were pretty common anyway. To everyone else he would just be another chap whose followers claimed had magical powers. To quote Monty Python 'I say you're the Lord, and I should know, I've followed a few.'

The idea that Jesus' followers witnessed miracles doesn't lead to the conclusion the Roman authorities would have accepted these things as being factually true or that he would have created a massive societal 'buzz'..

 

[oldbadger]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

Hi....
Yep..... you're mistaken.
Your thread title mentioned 'what Jesus did' and then you write an OP about the legends that were 'spun' about him.
There are one or two legends here in the UK, that were spun from (probably) real people. The only reason their names didn't get manipulated into a religion is because folks like Paul weren't around who needed to do it.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Most people didn't stray far from their home in those days also and 'miracles' were pretty common anyway.

You mean talk and rumor of miracles, right? No one in reality actually saw them, if they did then they'd really have something to report.

 

[raph]

Really? A man with actual proven magical powers would be put to death? Keeping in mind that no one has ever done anything like that before, the earthlings would not be inspired to total awe?

You forgot that his powers weren't the only thing. He showed that the people of power are sharlatans, that is why they hated and killed him.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

That is a good point. Nor would such a person get himself crucified.

Nor could someone like that get crucified, right? No one would actually crucify them. I mean we are talking about barbaric times, but even so, we are talking about someone who actually produces the goods. Half a million people would really be far too much in awe to allow that to occur, I think.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

You forgot that his powers weren't the only thing. He showed that the people of power are sharlatans, that is why they hated and killed him.

So people of power would actually put a mass miracle worker to death?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

There are one or two legends here in the UK, that were spun from (probably) real people. The only reason their names didn't get manipulated into a religion is because folks like Paul weren't around who needed to do it.

Come now, there were more Beatles than that, and they all survived the 60's.

 

[Augustus]

You mean talk and rumor of miracles, right? No one in reality actually saw them, if they did then they'd really have something to report.

As regards other miracles, people claimed they were true and probably even believed they were true. Even today, people genuinely believe in divine miracles and claim to have experienced them directly.

That Jesus' actually happened, rather than were simply believed to have happened, doesn't actually make the massive difference you think it would have.

 

[DawudTalut]

My hypothesis is that if a man actually was born on the earth from a virgin, acquired incredible magical powers, healed lepers, spread around endless baskets of instantaneous fish and bread, healed the blind etc. etc. that there would be no human being who would actually want to crucify him. In fact, the moment he healed those lepers and created that food, word would spread so fast across the empire that he would probably instantly be carted away to Rome in a royal litter, and put into a high position of power. Or, am I mistaken?

Peace be on you.
He was a Prophet of God, came for reforms Israelites, preached, prayed, showed miracles but not to extent as claimed otherwise you would have won your case. He healed spiritually sicks, not the completely blinds.

Did not he explain Elijah coming as John the Baptist! ..He was en route to migration after getting away from cross, and showed wounds to disciples and ate fish.....Went to Kashmir, along the way met The Lost Tribes....

Prophets come, work hard, show miracles which are unexplainable at time (not for latter time).
Jesus @ alislam.org

 

[amorphous_constellation]

As regards other miracles, people claimed they were true and probably even believed they were true. Even today, people genuinely believe in divine miracles and claim to have experienced them directly.

That Jesus' actually happened, rather than were simply believed to have happened, doesn't actually make the massive difference you think it would have.

Are you so sure, I mean what if you saw a dude turn a lake into kool-aid. Then the evidence in your mind would be incontrovertible. Absolutely incontrovertible, there would be no question of faith. You would no no longer believe in the supernatural, you would know of the supernatural. Big difference between that and telling stories about dragons stealing chickens in the farmyard and actually seeing it happen. People may have been highly superstitious, and they have even hallucinated a few things, but none of that could ever be so tangible as an actual sustained miracle event in which there clearly can be no question of it being real.

 

[Bunyip]

Are you so sure, I mean what if you saw a dude turn a lake into kool-aid. Then the evidence in your mind would be incontrovertible. Absolutely incontrovertible, there would be no question of faith. You would no no longer believe in the supernatural, you would know of the supernatural. Big difference between that and telling stories about dragons stealing chickens in the farmyard and actually seeing it happen. People may have been highly superstitious, and they have even hallucinated a few things, but none of that could ever be so tangible as an actual sustained miracle event in which there clearly can be no question of it being real.

But only a tiny, tiny few would ever be direct witnesses - for the vast majority, the claim must still be taken on faith. It remains for almost all people an anecdote.