If Jesus could heal blind men, why didn't he just heal blindness?

[InChrist]

As I said, politics. Even pointed out by a follower of God, why would we give our souls to God, how would God gain power and control, if he didn't allow us to suffer? He's not about love so much as being the manipulative "friend" who used weakness to gain control over you. So it would be silly for God to improve our lives.

Funny how a believer can directly show this yet be oblivious to the malicious intent behind it.

I think the problem you are revealing is that your thinking related to God is confused. God as the Creator does not have any need to gain control or power over us. God already has control over us. Every breath and heartbeat occurs only by His sustaining power. Our suffering is the result of our ignoring and rebelling against this reality. God in His love and patience is waiting for people to come to this realization and choose to be in loving relationship with their Creator instead of looking for love and fulfillment in all the wrong places.

 

[1137]

I think the problem you are revealing is that your thinking related to God is confused. God as the Creator does not have any need to gain control or power over us. God already has control over us. Every breath and heartbeat occurs only by His sustaining power. Our suffering is the result of our ignoring and rebelling against this reality. God in His love and patience is waiting for people to come to this realization and choose to be in loving relationship with their Creator instead of looking for love and fulfillment in all the wrong places.

Where are you getting this information from? No doubt the bible or from within the theology of the religion you belong to, in this case Christianity. You accept all this simply because it has been taught to you, it is no different that a Nazi supporter thinking Hitler is a great man after being taken in by Nazi propaganda.

 

[1robin]

Where are you getting this information from? No doubt the bible or from within the theology of the religion you belong to, in this case Christianity. You accept all this simply because it has been taught to you, it is no different that a Nazi supporter thinking Hitler is a great man after being taken in by Nazi propaganda.

I will not speak on the correctness of your comparison but the statement you originally made was to me and in the context of the Biblical God and so that is the proper context to respond to it in. You can't condemn God outside of the context he comes in? Or at least it would be meaningless and should not be done if facts are the goal (though it seldom is by the critique).

 

[sunni56]

Because it's not the job or ability of Christ to heal blindness in toto. He healed the blind as a miracle for the people around him.

 

[George-ananda]

The OP question is really the old Problem of Evil issue.

Life is eternal but 'Problem of Evil' believers view things from the limited perspective that life begins at birth and ends at death.The natural illusion.

I try to look at life from the perspective that life is eternal and we are in the process of learning that. We live as individuals for eons and not one life. We all return to godhead in the end. If one could see one's life from separation from godhead through the eons to return to godhead then things make more sense. What we see as evil are very short temporary events in the grand scheme of things where each individual story ends in success; return to peace/bliss/awareness of godhead.

If all the dramas were removed, it would just be a static-state sameness. Nothing would propel us to question, advance and grow.

I also use the analogy of creation as some grand expansive multi-dimensional artwork. And human problem of evil proponents view from their little spec and dimensional perspective of the artwork and try to judge the entire artwork. Their view is too limited to be meaningful.

 

[InChrist]

Where are you getting this information from? No doubt the bible or from within the theology of the religion you belong to, in this case Christianity. You accept all this simply because it has been taught to you, it is no different that a Nazi supporter thinking Hitler is a great man after being taken in by Nazi propaganda.

I do get this information from the Bible and personally knowing God's goodness. Besides, that it stands to reason that the Creator of heaven and earth already has all power and does not need to gain any from us. So if He does not really need us for anything then He must have created us for another purpose and I believe that purpose is to include us in His eternal love. God is love.

It is much different from Hitler who blatantly displayed his anti-love, anti-God hatred against God's chosen Jewish people and others of God's creation.

 

[1robin]

So what, God tells a fetus "don't be blind", the fetus decides being blind sounds awesome, and the loving parent can only stand by saying "told you so?" No, there is no such choice in the matter, there are natural and physical causes for things like blindness due to humans being biological beings. As shown, God can fix all this but chooses not to because, as you said, pain and suffering drive us right into his arms.

If you are familiar with southern US slavery then you know the people with the most pain and suffering looked to God more than any other force (not to blame) but for deliverance. They received when 300,000 Christians led by a Christian president died to purchase their freedom. Yet you are condemning the source of their hope and the method of their deliverance. The incoherence of atheism is a wonder to behold. I never said there always is choice in the matter. However blindness is a result of the rebellion of man which is a choice. God said that the results of mankind’s rebellion would affect all men. One of the aspects by which this happens is that God stopped sustaining nature and left it to run on its own. The normal reign of natural law and the anomalies and mistakes it produces were not intended but resulted from our rejection of God. God says it rains on he just and he unjust. In your view the child is born as a biological anomaly with no actual worth, into a world with no actual purpose, into a universe with no actual meaning. He lives a short blind geological blink of existence and then is annihilated forever. With God the child is born with intrinsic worth and his life has actual sanctity, he is born into a world with a purpose, in a universe with meaning and if he accepts the truth of reality and is born again when he dies he spends eternity with God and his sight is restored. There is only net gain with God. Without him you get the same crap only more of it and not even any hope it will ever be rectified and yet you condemn the source of this hope. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[1137]

I do get this information from the Bible and personally knowing God's goodness. Besides, that it stands to reason that the Creator of heaven and earth already has all power and does not need to gain any from us. So if He does not really need us for anything then He must have created us for another purpose and I believe that purpose is to include us in His eternal love. God is love.

It is much different from Hitler who blatantly displayed his anti-love, anti-God hatred against God's chosen Jewish people and others of God's creation.

See, again just because the propaganda says that this God is the highest of high does not make it so, that is the point of propaganda. If God said "I am the demiurge, creator of the physical world who wishes to enslave your soul and there is another reality far more divine than me" he would hardly have your approval, would he?

If you are familiar with southern US slavery then you know the people with the most pain and suffering looked to God more than any other force (not to blame) but for deliverance.

Haha you are just proving the point further. God could have come down here and liberated the slaves, but instead he allowed them to suffer, which in turn drove them into his arms. Then, once man (who you seem to see as evil or something) frees them, we once again give credit to God who did absolutely nothing.

The incoherence of atheism is a wonder to behold. I never said there always is choice in the matter. However blindness is a result of the rebellion of man which is a choice. God said that the results of mankind’s rebellion would affect all men.

I'm not even arguing from an atheistic perspective right now. And I cannot imagine what I have done to bring my problems upon myself, what a blind child has done, what a starving population has done. Hold us responsible for someone else's crimes and say the only way to stop suffering is to swear my soul to you. Yeah, that's not politics or manipulation, it's love.

In your view the child is born as a biological anomaly with no actual worth, into a world with no actual purpose, into a universe with no actual meaning. He lives a short blind geological blink of existence and then is annihilated forever.

Says who? Perhaps we have great worth. If we have worth I am sure it is more than to be enslaved to the will of a deity, how is that meaningful? If you think your soul is worth so much why not embrace life rather than sacrificing said soul to your God?

With God the child is born with intrinsic worth and his life has actual sanctity, he is born into a world with a purpose, in a universe with meaning and if he accepts the truth of reality and is born again when he dies he spends eternity with God and his sight is restored.

As stated, where do you get this information? Biased sources. Why are the Jews evil? Well, Hitler says so, and we know Hitler knows best because he told us so (and if we disagree we're going to Hell!!!).

 

[Koldo]

The OP question is really the old Problem of Evil issue.

Life is eternal but 'Problem of Evil' believers view things from the limited perspective that life begins at birth and ends at death.The natural illusion.

This is not necessarily the problem of evil. The question is: If jesus healed one blind man, why didn't he heal all blindness?

And even if it were you are deeply wrong if you believe that it depends on the perspective that life beings at birth and ends at death. But i think i have already explained this to you in the past.

 

[George-ananda]

This is not necessarily the problem of evil. The question is: If jesus healed one blind man, why didn't he heal all blindness?

Yes, this is just one of a million ways to ask to ask the Problem of Evil question.

Healing miracles are real but they are rare. They occur because of God's grace and factors we can't see (earnestness of prayers, karmic factors we can't see, intercession of others, etc.). We cannot understand why one is healed and another not, but there are reasons.

The tendency for us when looking at such things is just to consider this one life. Do we know the karmic history stretching back eons of the soul behind that blind person? No. we don't. All suffering, like blindness for one lifetime, is still seen as short and temporary in the grand scheme of things that last eons.

And even if it were you are deeply wrong if you believe that it depends on the perspective that life beings at birth and ends at death.

HOW am I wrong? Don't just say I'm wrong.

But i think i have already explained this to you in the past.

And I explained my position in the past. We come from different world-views and are destined to disagree. But the debate is stimulating to others I hope.

 

[Skwim]

I think the problem you are revealing is that your thinking related to God is confused. God as the Creator does not have any need to gain control or power over us. God already has control over us. Every breath and heartbeat occurs only by His sustaining power. Our suffering is the result of our ignoring and rebelling against this reality.

So what "ignoring and rebelling against this reality" took place within the infant suffering from spina bifida, or Down syndrome, or a cleft palate?

 

[1137]

The problem of evil is that people actually believe evil exists.

 

[Koldo]

Yes, this is just one of a million ways to ask to ask the Problem of Evil question.

Healing miracles are real but they are rare. They occur because of God's grace and factors we can't see (earnestness of prayers, karmic factors we can't see, intercession of others, etc.). We cannot understand why one is healed and another not, but there are reasons.

The tendency for us when looking at such things is just to consider this one life. Do we know the karmic history stretching back eons of the soul behind that blind person? No. we don't. All suffering, like blindness for one lifetime, is still seen as short and temporary in the grand scheme of things that last eons.

It is not just a way to ask the problem of evil question.
In this question it considers the evil was repelled by God once, it is asking why.
Why just that one person in particular?

This might lead into the Problem of Evil eventually, but it doesn't really begin as such.

HOW am I wrong? Don't just say I'm wrong.

And I explained my position in the past. We come from different world-views and are destined to disagree. But the debate is stimulating to others I hope.

I have already told you in the past how you are wrong.
It doesn't matter if you lived a thousand times before, or if you live once for eternity, or if you live once for a hundred years. The problem of evil applies in all these cases. If you, at very least, check the wikipedia page on this subject you will see there are replies to the problem of evil that take into consideration these nuances to formulate the rebuttal. You might at least want to read the soul making part. The very existence of these replies should be sufficient for you to comprehend that the problem of evil applies to all these cases, and that you need to elaborate a proper reply, rather than dismiss it on these grounds.

The problem of evil just needs an omnimax God and evil. Nothing else.

 

[sonofdad]

Because he didn't understand genetics yet.

 

[Azeiquil_Gavreel]

In my opinion, Jesus being the son of the Omnivarsal God(not the Christian deity), used Holy Magick to perform said "miracles" Jesus was already powerful in heavenly form, when he transitioned into Biological form he carried some of his powers, if you would, if your amazed by little miracles he performed......yea I don't know what to say.
However after posting this I can imagine I will become a target to the Christian Faith which is why I put "in my opinion."

 

[Blackdog22]

Our suffering is the result of our ignoring and rebelling against this reality. God in His love and patience is waiting for people to come to this realization and choose to be in loving relationship with their Creator instead of looking for love and fulfillment in all the wrong places.

So no Christians are in pain? People who are obedient to God and have accepted his son don't ever fall ill and tornados simply leap over there houses? Babies are obviously very bad sinners because otherwise all babies would be perfect or perhaps God is keen on punishing people at random for the crimes of another with seemingly no rhyme or reason. (Although, having babies suffer immense pain could have a benefit that I am not aware of).

The argument you made doesn't mesh to well with reality and what Perception said still seems like an accurate assessment. At least I think everyone could agree it was an accurate assessment if we were talking about "literally" any other being than God.

 

[George-ananda]

It is not just a way to ask the problem of evil question.
In this question it considers the evil was repelled by God once, it is asking why.
Why just that one person in particular?

I answered that question. Each soul's karmic history is different so it makes sense that they are treated differently. Every life experience on earth is unique and different for many reasons (including karmic issues). So things happen to some people and not to others.

This might lead into the Problem of Evil eventually, but it doesn't really begin as such.

I was fast forwarding the debate in my mind and could see what it would come down to, the Problem of Evil.

It doesn't matter if you lived a thousand times before, or if you live once for eternity, or if you live once for a hundred years. The problem of evil applies in all these cases. If you, at very least, check the wikipedia page on this subject you will see there are replies to the problem of evil that take into consideration these nuances to formulate the rebuttal. You might at least want to read the soul making part. The very existence of these replies should be sufficient for you to comprehend that the problem of evil applies to all these cases, and that you need to elaborate a proper reply, rather than dismiss it on these grounds.

The problem of evil just needs an omnimax God and evil. Nothing else.

I've never heard a satisfying rebuttal to my rebuttal. Perhaps you can paraphrase a rebuttal to my rebuttal that we can discuss.

The Problem of Evil isn't really a problem in eastern thought. Challenges and suffering are part and parcel of involvement on the physical plane. At the least, decrepitude, old age and death are certainties. We are striving to liberate ourselves from this plane.

 

[idea]

The problem of evil:

I believe evil is a temporary phenomenon that will give us eternal appreciation and knowledge of goodness.... theory of relativity, no up without down, no joy without sorrow, you don't know what you've got until you see the other side...

 

[BSM1]

Do I believe Yeshua performed miracles such as healings? Yes. Why? Two reasons: (a) compassion and (b) as a display of authenticity (The Buddha also performed a few miracles just to get the nagging doubters off his back). So why didn't these holy men heal all the ills of the world? Both Yeshua and Shakymuni taught that this world was of no real importance. Their actions demonstrated that we should waste very little time or energy worrying about our day-to-day living. By curing ever problem known to man would be putting way too much meaning to this existence. I know this is a strange concept but look at the teachings of Yeshua in regards to this earthly life.

 

[Blackdog22]

Do I believe Yeshua performed miracles such as healings? Yes. Why? Two reasons: (a) compassion and (b) as a display of authenticity (The Buddha also performed a few miracles just to get the nagging doubters off his back). So why didn't these holy men heal all the ills of the world? Both Yeshua and Shakymuni taught that this world was of no real importance. Their actions demonstrated that we should waste very little time or energy worrying about our day-to-day living. By curing ever problem known to man would be putting way too much meaning to this existence. I know this is a strange concept but look at the teachings of Yeshua in regards to this earthly life.

I know a lot of people who agree with this stance and I personally think their is a lot in different religions that endorces this. I also think this can lead to very bad outcomes when you live on a earth that you deem meaningless or of no real importance. I think when you look at the world that way, blowing yourself up for the good of God can become trivial, and this is the exact type of mentality that influences such things (Not that it always causes these things).

For an earth that is good for all mankind I much prefer the Atheist point of view. We have one life, live it to its fullest and make the most of it that you can because there is nothing else. Even though id love to be pleasantly surprised .

Besides, if I 100% believed or knew that an afterlife full of awesomeness awaited me in a place that was important, I would find it difficult to sit in this place of little importance. Suicide may become a very lofty idea.