Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, His body is dead, but His spirit lives on forever.
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If Jesus Died...
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
nPeace
Veteran Member
Which text are you quoting?
Colt
Well-Known Member
I’m not quoting a text.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Okay. What I am wondering is where you took the idea from.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Jesus was killed on the cross but returned in a new form. He would appear and vanish in locked rooms. That’s not human. Gabriel could appear at will and vanish, he’s not human. Jesus said he could return from death on his own which means he would never die.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I'm going to take a wild guess, and say, you aren't referencing any text, but giving your view of what you think happened, based on what the Bible says.
What you said here, is pretty accurate and in agreement with the scriptures, for the most part.
Jesus was killed.
(Matthew 17:22, 23) . . .Jesus said to them: “The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised up.”. . .
(Mark 9:31) . . .he was teaching his disciples and telling them: “The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, but despite being killed, he will rise three days later.”
(1 Peter 3:18) . . .For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
Christ died. No doubt about that.
He was raised up a new form - spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:20) . . .But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.
(1 Corinthians 15:44, 45) . . .It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
So, we are in agreement, on this, and we have scriptural citations that agree.
We may just disagree one one thing.
Christ did not raise himself from the dead. God raised Christ from the dead.
(Acts 2:24) . . .God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it. . .
(Acts 2:32) . . .God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.
(Acts 3:15) . . .whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. . .
(Acts 4:10) . . .let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·reneʹ, whom you executed on a stake but whom God raised up from the dead, by means of him this man stands here healthy in front of you.
(Acts 5:30, 31) . . .The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand. . .
(Acts 10:40) . . .God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest. . .
(Acts 13:29, 30) 29 And when they had accomplished all the things written about him, they took him down from the stake and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him up from the dead. . .
(Acts 13:33-37) 33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ 34 And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption, He has stated in this way: ‘I will give you the expressions of loyal love promised to David, which are faithful.’ 35 So it also says in another psalm: ‘You will not allow your loyal one to see corruption.’ 36 David, on the one hand, rendered service to God in his own generation, fell asleep in death, was laid with his forefathers, and did see corruption. 37 On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption.
Excuse me for quoting so many text, but the more support we have, the more proof we have.
Some may say, "This a a small matter. It does not really matter if we believe Jesus raised himself from the dead."
However, from what we read in the scriptures, it's not just a small thing. It's a very big and important issue that needs to be resolved.
(Romans 10:9) . . .For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
(1 Corinthians 6:14) . . .God raised up the Lord and will also raise us up out of death through his power. . .
(1 Corinthians 15:35-38) 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.
(2 Corinthians 1:9) . . .This was so that we would trust, not in ourselves, but in the God who raises up the dead.
(2 Corinthians 4:13-15) 13 Now because we have the same spirit of faith as that of which it is written: “I exercised faith, therefore I spoke”; we too exercise faith and therefore we speak, 14 knowing that the One who raised Jesus up will raise us up also with Jesus and will present us together with you. 15 For all these things are for your sake, so that the increase of the undeserved kindness should abound even more because many more are offering thanksgiving to the glory of God.
(Galatians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead. . .
(Ephesians 1:19, 20) . . .and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers. It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places. . .
(Colossians 2:12) . . .For you were buried with him in his baptism, and by your relationship with him you were also raised up together through your faith in the powerful work of God, who raised him up from the dead.
(Romans 4:24) . . .we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.
(Romans 8:11) . . .If, now, the spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you.
The scriptures thus help us to appreciate that the power to resurrect the dead, is from God, and is to his glory.
Jesus always gave God the glory. Everything he did was to the glory of God. It builds faith in God, and his matchless power.
If we deify Jesus, or give Jesus that glory, we are doing exactly what Satan wanted Jesus himself to do, and what he wants us to do.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Kind of runs contrary to John 20:24-29. The story indicates the physical body of Jesus.
nPeace
Veteran Member
It does, to persons who don't understand what a spirit being is, in scripture.
When angels materialized on earth, they put on a human body, so that they were able to eat drink, and obviously be visible to humans.
Jesus needed to convince a doubtful disciple, so as a spirit being, he materialize a body with the marks of his former body.
The reason he was not recognized even by facial features, is because he put on different bodies.
You would think that people who walked with Jesus for 3 years would recognize his face, even if he had a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Wouldn't that be regarded as deception?It does, to persons who don't understand what a spirit being is, in scripture.
When angels materialized on earth, they put on a human body, so that they were able to eat drink, and obviously be visible to humans.
Jesus needed to convince a doubtful disciple, so as a spirit being, he materialize a body with the marks of his former body.
The reason he was not recognized even by facial features, is because he put on different bodies.
You would think that people who walked with Jesus for 3 years would recognize his face, even if he had a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
nPeace
Veteran Member
No, because all he is doing is proving a truth.
If he wasn't the Christ, it would be deception.
Think of it like showing you the one thing you know no one else could possibly have.
I thought of an example of something intimate, but maybe I shouldn't use that.
However, if someone got plastic surgery done on their face, they might have to show the only thing they would be recognized by.
An angel might appear in multiple bodies, but he is not being deceptive.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Woah! I of course want to give you a chance to explain. However, it seems to me that there should be one standard of what is deception. It shouldn't make any difference whether he was "Christ" or not.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Just to clarify. I am not agreeing with the idea that Jesus' body died, but His spirit lives on forever.
Jesus himself died. He was resurrected, and given a body that cannot die - an immortal spirit body. He is a living spirit (being).
1 Peter 3:18; 1 Corinthians 15:20, 44, 45
nPeace
Veteran Member
What's wrong with my explanation?
PureX
Veteran Member
Yes, but couldn't we still reject that salvation? ... By rejecting the virtue that it bought us?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
A story is just a story. Anyone can write a story and make it sound real.
Colt
Well-Known Member
But Jesus said he would return from the death of his body on his own volition, so only the temporary mortal flesh died, the Son didn’t die.I'm going to take a wild guess, and say, you aren't referencing any text, but giving your view of what you think happened, based on what the Bible says.
What you said here, is pretty accurate and in agreement with the scriptures, for the most part.
Jesus was killed.
(Matthew 17:22, 23) . . .Jesus said to them: “The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised up.”. . .
(Mark 9:31) . . .he was teaching his disciples and telling them: “The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, but despite being killed, he will rise three days later.”
(1 Peter 3:18) . . .For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
Christ died. No doubt about that.
He was raised up a new form - spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:20) . . .But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.
(1 Corinthians 15:44, 45) . . .It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
So, we are in agreement, on this, and we have scriptural citations that agree.
We may just disagree one one thing.
Christ did not raise himself from the dead. God raised Christ from the dead.
(Acts 2:24) . . .God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it. . .
(Acts 2:32) . . .God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.
(Acts 3:15) . . .whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. . .
(Acts 4:10) . . .let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·reneʹ, whom you executed on a stake but whom God raised up from the dead, by means of him this man stands here healthy in front of you.
(Acts 5:30, 31) . . .The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand. . .
(Acts 10:40) . . .God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest. . .
(Acts 13:29, 30) 29 And when they had accomplished all the things written about him, they took him down from the stake and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him up from the dead. . .
(Acts 13:33-37) 33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ 34 And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption, He has stated in this way: ‘I will give you the expressions of loyal love promised to David, which are faithful.’ 35 So it also says in another psalm: ‘You will not allow your loyal one to see corruption.’ 36 David, on the one hand, rendered service to God in his own generation, fell asleep in death, was laid with his forefathers, and did see corruption. 37 On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption.
Excuse me for quoting so many text, but the more support we have, the more proof we have.
Some may say, "This a a small matter. It does not really matter if we believe Jesus raised himself from the dead."
However, from what we read in the scriptures, it's not just a small thing. It's a very big and important issue that needs to be resolved.
(Romans 10:9) . . .For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
(1 Corinthians 6:14) . . .God raised up the Lord and will also raise us up out of death through his power. . .
(1 Corinthians 15:35-38) 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.
(2 Corinthians 1:9) . . .This was so that we would trust, not in ourselves, but in the God who raises up the dead.
(2 Corinthians 4:13-15) 13 Now because we have the same spirit of faith as that of which it is written: “I exercised faith, therefore I spoke”; we too exercise faith and therefore we speak, 14 knowing that the One who raised Jesus up will raise us up also with Jesus and will present us together with you. 15 For all these things are for your sake, so that the increase of the undeserved kindness should abound even more because many more are offering thanksgiving to the glory of God.
(Galatians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead. . .
(Ephesians 1:19, 20) . . .and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers. It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places. . .
(Colossians 2:12) . . .For you were buried with him in his baptism, and by your relationship with him you were also raised up together through your faith in the powerful work of God, who raised him up from the dead.
(Romans 4:24) . . .we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.
(Romans 8:11) . . .If, now, the spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you.
The scriptures thus help us to appreciate that the power to resurrect the dead, is from God, and is to his glory.
Jesus always gave God the glory. Everything he did was to the glory of God. It builds faith in God, and his matchless power.
If we deify Jesus, or give Jesus that glory, we are doing exactly what Satan wanted Jesus himself to do, and what he wants us to do.
We don’t know how much his followers understood about the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth. To say “God raised him up” is synonymous with the Son returning on his own because he’s God the Son. But we don’t know what was in the mind of his followers.
The atonement doctrine was an afterthought that developed after Jesus returned to heaven.
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nPeace
Veteran Member
Nope. Quotation - (John 2:19) . . .Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
We do not read "he would return from the death of his body on his own volition" there.
Too many scriptures say otherwise, for this to be considered Gospel.
Luke was a disciple. The books of Luke and Acts carry his name.
Which disciple are you, and what book carries your name?
I'll stick with Luke and Paul.
Jesus knew that his faithful course guaranteed, a resurrection from his trustworthy father, so because of this, he was responsible for his resurrection.
Just as persons were responsible for their healing.
(Luke 8:48) . . .he said to her: “Daughter, your faith has made you well.. . .
It was the power from God that healed the woman, just as power from God raised Jesus. Luke 8:46
I'm always amazed at how bold persons are, as to judge as wicked, evil men, servants of God, whom God used to write scripture that became part of his inspired word.
It's as if persons today believe they are heavenly beings with authority from God himself. This is truly a marvel.
It's almost as if Satan himself is speaking.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Yep! Jesus said he would rebuild himself, witnesses even testified to that at his trial.Nope. Quotation - (John 2:19) . . .Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
We do not read "he would return from the death of his body on his own volition" there.
Too many scriptures say otherwise, for this to be considered Gospel.
Luke was a disciple. The books of Luke and Acts carry his name.
Which disciple are you, and what book carries your name?
I'll stick with Luke and Paul.
Jesus knew that his faithful course guaranteed, a resurrection from his trustworthy father, so because of this, he was responsible for his resurrection.
Just as persons were responsible for their healing.
(Luke 8:48) . . .he said to her: “Daughter, your faith has made you well.. . .
It was the power from God that healed the woman, just as power from God raised Jesus. Luke 8:46
I'm always amazed at how bold persons are, as to judge as wicked, evil men, servants of God, whom God used to write scripture that became part of his inspired word.
It's as if persons today believe they are heavenly beings with authority from God himself. This is truly a marvel.
It's almost as if Satan himself is speaking.
Rejecting the Gospel of the kingdom and killing Jesus was the will of the devil not his Father!
The fetishism of inspired scripture contaminates many religions. And the enemies of Jesus ALSO accused him of being in league with Satan! LoL!
The teaching that God couldn’t forgive the world until he saw his blameless son dying on the cross originated in the ideology of the Pagan world which is where Judaism adopted blood sacrifices from.
nPeace
Veteran Member
We should be able to find the Gospel of Colt... somewhere.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Jesus called it The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. He lived, taught and preached it for 3+ years before being apprehended and killed for it.We should be able to find the Gospel of Colt... somewhere.