If Jesus Died...

[YoursTrue]

There is no place in the "sky" where God puts people for special assignments etc. Heaven meant heaven.

Not spiritual heavens. Heaven from the Hebrew means the physical heavens, like where the sun, sky, moon, stars, etc. are. Some Bible commentators and lexicons at bible.cc have it correct. Take care again.

 

[Colt]

Not spiritual heavens. Heaven from the Hebrew means the physical heavens, like where the sun, sky, moon, stars, etc. are. Some Bible commentators and lexicons at bible.cc have it correct. Take care again.

The heaven of salvaged souls is nowhere near the earth! The Mansion worlds are far, far from our solar system.

 

[YoursTrue]

The heaven of salvaged souls is nowhere near the earth! The Mansion worlds are far, far from our solar system.

lol, try talking to others about this and see what they have to say. have a good one. You really need to do more studying, possibly praying if you pray.

 

[Colt]

lol, try talking to others about this and see what they have to say. have a good one. You really need to do more studying, possibly praying if you pray.

Its not at all complicated. The ancient stories of Enoch and Elijiah are straight forward. New doctrines that came much later have a need to discredit the plain, matter of fact narrative.

 

[nPeace]

Okay, Colt. I just have one last question, that I would like you to answer, and that's the end of the road, for me.
What does Hebrews 6:19, 20, Hebrews 9:8, 24 and Hebrews 10:19, 20 mean to you?

I thought you were avoiding these scriptures. I just thought I'd give you a fourth chance, just to be 100% sure, since it does bring to the fore, the issue of honesty versus dishonesty.
My work here is finished.

 

[Colt]

I thought you were avoiding these scriptures. I just thought I'd give you a fourth chance, just to be 100% sure, since it does bring to the fore, the issue of honesty versus dishonesty.
My work here is finished.

I don’t see any problem between Hebrews and the heaven going of those saved prior to Jesus’ Gospel.

 

[nPeace]

I don’t see any problem between Hebrews and the heaven going of those saved prior to Jesus’ Gospel.

Of course you don't.
This reminds me of when Jesus asked the Pharisees a question.
(Matthew 21:23-27)
23 After he went into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him while he was teaching and said: “By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?” 24 In reply Jesus said to them: “I will also ask you one thing. If you tell me, then I will also tell you by what authority I do these things: 25 The baptism by John, from what source was it? From heaven or from men? ” But they began to reason among themselves, saying: “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why, then, did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we have the crowd to fear, for they all regard John as a prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus: “We do not know.” He, in turn, said to them: “Neither am I telling you by what authority I do these things.

Jesus asked a question - Was the Baptism of John from heaven, or from men?
We do not know? In other words, you tell us. Whatever you say. Sarcastically, of course.
These wicked men knew that to answer the question, honestly, would expose their wickedness, so they refused to give a proper answer.

You did not answer the question Colt. Why not? Alll the other verses you were happy to give an explanation. Why not these?
Would answering this question, expose dishonesty, on your part - wickedness as seen in those who don't really care what the Bible says, but are only interested in the moneys they invest from the church, which they rob the blind of... Or can you answer the question?

The question was... What does Hebrews 6:19, 20, Hebrews 9:8, 24 and Hebrews 10:19, 20 mean to you?
In other words, please explain the verses as Colt sees them. Help me to see that there is no problem.

 

[Colt]

Of course you don't.
This reminds me of when Jesus asked the Pharisees a question.
(Matthew 21:23-27)
23 After he went into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him while he was teaching and said: “By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?” 24 In reply Jesus said to them: “I will also ask you one thing. If you tell me, then I will also tell you by what authority I do these things: 25 The baptism by John, from what source was it? From heaven or from men? ” But they began to reason among themselves, saying: “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why, then, did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we have the crowd to fear, for they all regard John as a prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus: “We do not know.” He, in turn, said to them: “Neither am I telling you by what authority I do these things.

Jesus asked a question - Was the Baptism of John from heaven, or from men?
We do not know? In other words, you tell us. Whatever you say. Sarcastically, of course.
These wicked men knew that to answer the question, honestly, would expose their wickedness, so they refused to give a proper answer.

You did not answer the question Colt. Why not? Alll the other verses you were happy to give an explanation. Why not these?
Would answering this question, expose dishonesty, on your part - wickedness as seen in those who don't really care what the Bible says, but are only interested in the moneys they invest from the church, which they rob the blind of... Or can you answer the question?

The question was... What does Hebrews 6:19, 20, Hebrews 9:8, 24 and Hebrews 10:19, 20 mean to you?
In other words, please explain the verses as Colt sees them. Help me to see that there is no problem.

Hebrews 6:19, 20 The coming of the Son of God was the fulfillment of Gods promise.
Hebrews 9:8, 24 The author of Hebrews is rationalizing the new Christian gospel of the atonement with Judaism.
Hebrews 10:19, 20 The human sacrifice of Jesus opened up a new way of salvation.

 

[nPeace]

Hebrews 6:19, 20 The coming of the Son of God was the fulfillment of Gods promise.
Hebrews 9:8, 24 The author of Hebrews is rationalizing the new Christian gospel of the atonement with Judaism.
Hebrews 10:19, 20 The human sacrifice of Jesus opened up a new way of salvation.

It's no wonder the churches are emptying. People are starved spiritually, because those who claim knowledge of scriptures, cannot explain scriptures, but think that uttering bland statements is explaining. So sad.
Not that more is to be expected from persons who don't want to be taught by Jesus.
No wonder Jesus told his disciples, "Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”"

 

[Colt]

It's no wonder the churches are emptying. People are starved spiritually, because those who claim knowledge of scriptures, cannot explain scriptures, but think that uttering bland statements is explaining. So sad.
Not that more is to be expected from persons who don't want to be taught by Jesus.
No wonder Jesus told his disciples, "Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”"

My answers were as simple as the points made in the letter. You asked me to comment on specific parts. Nothing profound about it. The author of Hebrews was still trying to bring the Jews to the new Christian Gospel.

 

[Dimi95]

What rule are you applying here?
Does that rule also apply to this verse - Ezekiel 34:22-24?
Does David come back from the dead, and lead God's people, or is David used figuratively, to represent someone else? Hosea 3:5

Ezekiel 34:11-16
"For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them.As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness.I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord.I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.

And continues

Ezekiel 34:17-24
"As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: .......
I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the Lord have spoken."

David as prince reffers to Jewish people , as Ezekiel 34:17 starts with "As for you..."

Hosea 3:5 also reffers to children of Israel.

 

[Muffled]

" I believe "
Sorry, one's is a blind faith/belief and not based on reason, and one is a follower of Hellenist-Paul, Yeshua did not speak that people could remember word for word, he did not author and or write anything, get to know, please.

Regards

I believe I am totally convinced by experience that Jesus is the only Savior. Reason at times is deficient.

 

[Muffled]

So, by his own words Hellenist Paul mislead Followers of Yeshua from the path Yeshua followed:

1. Yeshua did not die on the Cross, many clues in the Bible itself
2. Yeshua did not raise from the dead, many clues in the Bible itself
3. preaching of Pauline-Christianity is worthless
4. faith in Pauline-Christianity is, therefore, useless

Right?

Regards

1. I believe the fact that Jesus didn't die on the cross is ancillary since the body of Jesus died and that is usually enough for most people.
2. I believe the Bible is quite clear that Jesus was raised from the dead. Looking for loopholes doesn't change that.
3. I believe Paul eloquently preached the gospel and that is worth more than any treasure.
4. I believe the premise is false so therefore the conclusion is also.

 

[Dimi95]

Does David come back from the dead, and lead God's people, or is David used figuratively, to represent someone else?

John 14:6
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Revelation 17:14
"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings,and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

I look forward sharing toughts with you

Peace

 

[Muffled]

The body of Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross, the spiritual person of the Son of God did not die, he waited 3 days and returned from the celestial world and appeared to a number of believers. IMOP

I believe you ae correct about the body but wrong about the son being another spiritual person. The spirit leaving the body of Jesus is God Himself.

 

[Dimi95]

Not spiritual heavens. Heaven from the Hebrew means the physical heavens, like where the sun, sky, moon, stars, etc. are. Some Bible commentators and lexicons at bible.cc have it correct. Take care again.

This is Vague


There are 2 positions as explained in :
1 Corinthians 15
"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor."

John 3
"I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

 

[Colt]

This is Vague


There are 2 positions as explained in :
1 Corinthians 15
"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor."

John 3
"I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

At that point Jesus hadn't gone into heaven. He came down from heaven, so he had authority to teach these things to Nicodemus. Jesus wasn't saying that nobody had ever been saved and gone to heaven after death.

 

[Dimi95]

At that point Jesus hadn't gone into heaven. He came down from heaven, so he had authority to teach these things to Nicodemus. Jesus wasn't saying that nobody had ever been saved and gone to heaven after death.

It was aplied for physycal heaven , or heavenly things.
Heaven is heaven.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is Vague


There are 2 positions as explained in :
1 Corinthians 15
"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor."

John 3
"I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

If you look up the interlinear word for word translation from Hebrew to English, you will see it can mean sky. As well as heaven. Also in the beginning God created the heavens(s) and the earth. Apparently that meant physical heaven. Sun, moon, stars,etc. thanks.

 

[Colt]

It was aplied for physycal heaven , or heavenly things.
Heaven is heaven.

The context was the discussion about entering the spiritual fellowship that Jesus called The Kingdom of Heaven, the spiritual rebirth required to enter and his authority to teach such things. Jesus wasn't saying that he had ascended into heaven at some time in the past.