If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God...

[Spice]

Did it? People have got wiser now.

Most. And many have gotten wiser without losing that "spiritual" awe of what caused all this magnificence.

 

[sun rise]

If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God that would mean that Christianity is not the only true religion.
In that case, I have two questions:

From my belief anyone who sincerely searches for the Divine will find the Divine sooner or later.

1) How would that make Christianity any less of a true religion?

The only thing that changes is a claim to exclusivity.

2) How would that make Jesus any less of a Savior?

It doesn't but I personally don't use the word "savior" to apply to any Avataric manifestations including Jesus.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That didn't happen. That is a Christian myth that has no reality. Christ sacrificed Himself certainly, but God did not. That Adam and Eve story has been turned into something it is not by Christians.

Why at all you are taking up the sword against Christianity? Is that how you will bring peace and brotherhood to the world? Keep to your faith and let the Christians believe what they believe. You have problems with every religion of the world. Moses did not say that, Muhammad did not say that, Krishna did not say that, Buddha did not say that. Bahais are the latest troublesome people of the world.

 

[Aupmanyav]

And many have gotten wiser without losing that "spiritual" awe of what caused all this magnificence.

^^^
Many have got wiser to the snake-oil sellers.

 

[Truthseeker]

Why at all you are taking up the sword against Christianity? Is that how you will bring peace and brotherhood to the world? Keep to your faith and let the Christians believe what they believe. You have problems with every religion of the world. Moses did not say that, Muhammad did not say that, Krishna did not say that, Buddha did not say that. Bahais are the latest troublesome people of the world.

I have no quarrel with Christianity, just some Christians. Certainly some Christians agree with me.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why at all you are taking up the sword against Christianity?

How is our belief a sword? We all have a right to believe what we believe.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How is our belief a sword? We all have a right to believe what we believe.

You are belittling the belief of every other religion. That is the problem, that creates friction. When did I deny you the right to believe whatever stuff you believe, true or false? I believe belief in God and messengers to be superstitious and silly. You cannot deny me the right to believe so.

 

[Trailblazer]

Doesn't this whole discussion presume the reality of the judgemental God and subservient man mythology?

Yes, it does presume that because that is what Christians believe in.

Do we really need a mediator?

Yes, I believe we need a mediator if we want to know anything about God including God's will for us.

Are we really in grave peril and need salvation?

No, I don't believe that since I am not a Christian.

Why did God have to sacrifice Himself to Himself to "atone" for the sins that He, Himself engineered and knowingly tricked man into breaching.

As a Baha'i, I do not believe that the Adam and Eve story is anything that really happened. Rather, I believe it is a metaphor, a story with a spiritual message to convey. The way Baha'is believe that Jesus saved us is as follows.

Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin.
Adam And Eve | Bahá'í Quotes

Baha'is do not believe there was anything to atone for because we don't believe in an original sin committed by Adam and Eve.

Couldn't the author of the whole universe have designed a safe, secure world and well behaved children in the first place?

He did, but He also gave us free will to choose so some people are not going to behave.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are belittling the belief of every other religion. That is the problem, that creates friction.

We are not belittling their beliefs, we just don't agree with 'all' their beliefs. They do not agree with all our beliefs either, so are they belittling our beliefs?

When did I deny you the right to believe whatever stuff you believe, true or false? I believe belief in God and messengers to be superstitious and silly. You cannot deny me the right to believe so.

I am not denying you that belief.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Jesus is the “Messiah” for all time; it’s through him that all humans will be given the opportunity to become reconciled to Jehovah…. which is to say, at least until the Bible’s promises at Ephesians 1:10, Revelation 21:3,4, etc., etc., come to fruition / are fulfilled.

 

[Truthseeker]

As a Baha'i, I do not believe that the Adam and Eve story is anything that really happened. Rather, I believe it is a metaphor, a story with a spiritual message to convey. The way Baha'is believe that Jesus saved us is as follows.

Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin.
Adam And Eve | Bahá'í Quotes

Baha'is do not believe there was anything to atone for because we don't believe in an original sin committed by Adam and Eve.

Don't forget to say that God didn't sacrifice himself, either.

 

[Valjean]

That didn't happen. That is a Christian myth that has no reality. Christ sacrificed Himself certainly, but God did not. That Adam and Eve story has been turned into something it is not by Christians.

So what is the whole sacrifice and redemption thing in Christian mythology? It seems like a variation of the animal sacrifices the early Israelites were so enamored with.
Why couldn't God have designed things properly to begin with?

 

[Trailblazer]

Don't forget to say that God didn't sacrifice himself, either.

I hope that goes without saying since God cannot die.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Couldn't the author of the whole universe have designed a safe, secure world and well behaved children in the first place?

It was originally; but He didn’t create us to be automatons.

Jehovah wants our loyalty to come from gratitude; not because we are programmed to be obedient, but because we want to.

 

[Valjean]

Jesus is the “Messiah” for all time; it’s through him that all humans will be given the opportunity to become reconciled to Jehovah…. which is to say, at least until the Bible’s promises at Ephesians 1:10, Revelation 21:3,4, etc., etc., come to fruition / are fulfilled.

You're preaching.
Can you back any of this up with objective evidence? Why is your Buible any more authoritative than The Hobbit?

 

[Valjean]

I hope that goes without saying since God cannot die.

Legends and folk tales.
Can Odin or Zeus die?

 

[blü 2]

Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to come to God, and the only mediator between God and man, making Christianity the only true religion. This belief is based upon the following Bible verses.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus did not say that He was the only way to come to the Father for all of time, but that is what Christians believe. However, that makes no sense because we know that before Jesus walked the earth the Jews came to God by way of Moses, so why would Jesus suddenly become the only way for all time? Why couldn't Muslims come to God by way of Muhammad and Baha'is by way of Baha'u'llah, at a later time in history?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before Jesus walked the earth, Moses was a mediator between God and men, so why couldn't Muslims come to God by way of yet another mediator, Muhammad, and Baha'is by way of yet another mediator, Baha'u'llah?



This post is about if Jesus isn't the only way to come to God.

If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God that would mean that Christianity is not the only true religion.
In that case, I have two questions:

1) How would that make Christianity any less of a true religion?
2) How would that make Jesus any less of a Savior?

These questions are mainly directed at Christians, although anyone is welcome to answer them.

Thanks, Trailblazer

The idea that you, a human, need an intermediary to engage with God, is found only with the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John. They hold with the gnostic idea that God is pure pure pure spirit, hence incredibly remote from anything material, including humans. In the same gnostic vein, Paul's Jesus is said to have created the material universe, and John's Jesus is said to have done the same. Check out John 17 for an exposition of this idea.

But the Jesuses of Mark, Matthew and Luke have no such requirement, and do not offer themselves as intermediaries, or state a requirement of any intermediary, as far as I can recall.

 

[Valjean]

It was originally; but He didn’t create us to be automatons.

Jehovah wants our loyalty to come from gratitude; not because we are programmed to be obedient, but because we want to.

Gratitude for what? His design is a mess, and he toys with us like a kid pulling the wings off flies or frying ants with a magnifying glass.
He's a monster!

 

[sun rise]

Why couldn't God have designed things properly to begin with?

Why believe that creation is imperfect and we know better than God?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So what is the whole sacrifice and redemption thing in Christian mythology? It seems like a variation of the animal sacrifices the early Israelites were so enamored with.

Very good association of facts!

Yes, the animal sacrifices pointed to Christ. Many people don’t get that. But blood was to be given, for atonement. Paul spoke about that, and correlated the two: the Israelites’ sacrifices to Jesus’ one sacrifice. — Hebrews 10:1-14

Very astute, Valjean.