If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Shermana]

Spin and HOGWASH. Wow

Where's the Spin in anything I say?

Basically, all you are able to do is brush off anything I say as "Spin".

Are you just really stubborn to once again admit that I'm right and you're wrong?

Because obviously you aren't interested in demonstrating HOW what I say is spin.

Again, if you're not here to debate, get out. GO TO THE DIRS.

This will be my last message to you unless you actually demonstrate how what I say is spin in detail.

 

[Benoni]

Did you even read the verse on the narrow way.

 

[Muffled]

1 thess 4:16--- upon Jesus return to earth--he comes with the voice of the archangel( Michael)--- does Jesus borrow Michaels voice--or is it his own voice?

I believe "with" here means accompanied by not having. To interpret otherwise is out of context with the rest of the Bible.

I believe there are more than one archangel. I believe Gabriel is the one who makes important announcements and Michael is more of a warrior. Have you never heard the sttement "come Gabriel blow your horn?" However there is no direct evidence to say which one accompanies Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

The Incarnation of God's Wisdom Personified, the First Created Soul, the Highest of the Heavenly Host under God, the heir to the Throne, the Prince of Heaven.

I believe there is no evidence to support any of these notions.

I believe he is a successor to David's line but necessarily an heir. As far as theThrone of Heaven goes, I beleive the Father always occupies that and has no heir.

I believe this is not really supportable since it is also associated with the throne of Heaven.

 

[Benoni]

I believe there is no evidence to support any of these notions.

I believe he is a successor to David's line but necessarily an heir. As far as theThrone of Heaven goes, I beleive the Father always occupies that and has no heir.

I believe this is not really supportable since it is also associated with the throne of Heaven.

Point one I totally agree
Point 2 both physically and especially spiritually

 

[look3467]

Perhaps a different perspective/view would help both in this argument without having to dish out unneeded adjectives one to another.

Picture, if you will the whole of humanity's souls, from the very first set of parents to the yet unborn child and substitute Jesus in their place.

Now, by doing that you will see that the dealings with sin no longer is with mankind but between heaven and earth, or between the Father and and with Jesus.

If Jesus is the sole representative for mankind, then the burden for sins payment is on Him and on Him alone. Which, if you are a believer......you do understand that.

All the verses quoted by both of you must be addressed with Jesus alone.

"Narrow is the way" can only be addressed to one who could travel that narrow path since mankind was doomed and could not. Wide was the road but "None" could travel it except God Himself.

If, you narrow your views on scriptures to that of applying to Christ only, you will begin to understand the mystery of God's grace towards mankind and how many verses in the bible become clearer and how after Christs resurrection, apply to us.

All of mankind's sins are now the responsibility of the one who paid the price, the owner of all human souls, born and not yet born.

He is just to forgive sins upon repentance is is able to save to the utter most sinner and save their soul.

The argument of in forums of this type are merely an exercise to sharpen ones sword.

The hope is in gaining understanding and not in demeaning others because of their different point of view.

Blessings, AJ

 

[kjw47]

I believe "with" here means accompanied by not having. To interpret otherwise is out of context with the rest of the Bible.

I believe there are more than one archangel. I believe Gabriel is the one who makes important announcements and Michael is more of a warrior. Have you never heard the sttement "come Gabriel blow your horn?" However there is no direct evidence to say which one accompanies Jesus.

Jesus is Michael--- the prophecys concerning the Messiah--he stands as Gods appointed king to lead Gods armies. Michael lead those armies in the war of heaven--the first ride of the white horse-rev 6)( 4 horsemen rode starting in 1914) Where upon completion--he receives his crown( Jesus gets the crown--he alone is Gods appointed king--he alone has the right to defend Gods kingdom against satan.
In the ot not a single mention of the name Jesus--yet has always been 2nd in command--so obviously is mentioned--as Michael.

Gabriel is never called archangel except in unacceptable books. Jesus comes with his voice at 1 thess 4:16


False teachers teach--Jesus was fully God--yet Gods word teaches--Jesus was made a little lower than the angels as a mortal--God is not lower than the angels and never ever would be.

 

[Benoni]

The reason we do not agree it’s very simple he is locked into some man made creed or dogma and refuse to look at God’s Word outside this box he has created for himself. I on the other hand reuse to let any man made box control the deepness of God’s Divine Word

 

[Benoni]

Jesus is Michael--- the prophecys concerning the Messiah--he stands as Gods appointed king to lead Gods armies. Michael lead those armies in the war of heaven--the first ride of the white horse-rev 6)( 4 horsemen rode starting in 1914) Where upon completion--he receives his crown( Jesus gets the crown--he alone is Gods appointed king--he alone has the right to defend Gods kingdom against satan.
In the ot not a single mention of the name Jesus--yet has always been 2nd in command--so obviously is mentioned--as Michael.

Gabriel is never called archangel except in unacceptable books. Jesus comes with his voice at 1 thess 4:16


False teachers teach--Jesus was fully God--yet Gods word teaches--Jesus was made a little lower than the angels as a mortal--God is not lower than the angels and never ever would be.

Is this the spiritual Jesus or the physical Jesus who was made lower then the angels. The Spiritual Jesus is not lower then any angel

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh and He is many things because of this, He is our spiritual example of whom and what God is God's nature and character in human flesh. He is the Lamb of God who lay down his life for all of His creation. He purposely took on human form so he could be the ultimate sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. He is the mercy seat, the Ark of God, the Holy of holies, He is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end and all the Greek letters in between. He was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, and to be slain he took on human form, but never its nature for His nature and character is God manifested in flesh. Not one drop of Adam’s blood flowed though his veins for the blood line goes thought the father not the mother. His birth was divine and his death was the reason he came. He is the Lord of Lords, King of kings the mighty God.

 

[Benoni]

Is this the spiritual Jesus or the physical Jesus who was made lower then the angels. The Spiritual Jesus is not lower than any angel

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh and He is many things because of this, He is our spiritual example of whom and what God is God's nature and character in human flesh. He is the Lamb of God who lay down his life for all of His creation. He purposely took on human form so he could be the ultimate sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. He is the mercy seat, the Ark of God, the Holy of holies, He is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end and all the Greek letters in between. He was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, and to be slain he took on human form, but never its nature for His nature and character is God manifested in flesh. Not one drop of Adam’s blood flowed through his veins for the blood line goes thought the father not the mother. His birth was divine and his death was the reason he came. He is the Lord of Lords, King of kings the mighty God.

 

[Ken Brown]

Is this the spiritual Jesus or the physical Jesus who was made lower then the angels. The Spiritual Jesus is not lower than any angel

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh and He is many things because of this, He is our spiritual example of whom and what God is God's nature and character in human flesh. He is the Lamb of God who lay down his life for all of His creation. He purposely took on human form so he could be the ultimate sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. He is the mercy seat, the Ark of God, the Holy of holies, He is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end and all the Greek letters in between. He was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, and to be slain he took on human form, but never its nature for His nature and character is God manifested in flesh. Not one drop of Adam’s blood flowed through his veins for the blood line goes thought the father not the mother. His birth was divine and his death was the reason he came. He is the Lord of Lords, King of kings the mighty God.

Hi Benoni, I do agree with you about Elohim's plan being that man experience sin (Rom 8:20-21, Rom 11:32, and Rom 7:14), but I am not in agreement that Yeshua was Elohim in the flesh. He was only a man, the Son of Man, and by and through His resurrection, He became the Only begotten of the Father (Acts 13:33). KB

 

[Benoni]

Hi Benoni, I do agree with you about Elohim's plan being that man experience sin (Rom 8:20-21, Rom 11:32, and Rom 7:14), but I am not in agreement that Yeshua was Elohim in the flesh. He was only a man, the Son of Man, and by and through His resurrection, He became the Only begotten of the Father (Acts 13:33). KB

I understand where you are coming from but I do not see Jesus in the flesh as the same Jesus in the Spirit. yes He was made/begotten in the flesh. but that is only His flesh.
Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Notice the verse in context shows us Jesus and the Father are one

 

[Ken Brown]

I understand where you are coming from but I do not see Jesus in the flesh as the same Jesus in the Spirit. yes He was made/begotten in the flesh. but that is only His flesh.
Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Notice the verse in context shows us Jesus and the Father are one

Hi Benoni, just as Yeshua, the Father, and the Saints are One:

Jn 17:20 - 17:21

(20) “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; (21) that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

So are all of those who Believe, also Elohim in the flesh? KB

 

[Benoni]

Hi Benoni, just as Yeshua, the Father, and the Saints are One:

Jn 17:20 - 17:21

(20) “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; (21) that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

So are all of those who Believe, also Elohim in the flesh? KB

Yes I believe man is elohim but fallen

men are elohim (Ps 82),
Psalm 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the (elohim)gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; (elohim)and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God(elohim), judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

 

[Ken Brown]

Yes I believe man is elohim but fallen

men are elohim (Ps 82),
Psalm 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the (elohim)gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; (elohim)and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God(elohim), judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Hi Benoni, so when Yeshua was asking the Father that those who Believe would be ONE with Him and the Father, He was asking about "fallen elohim?" KB

 

[Benoni]

I do not exclude the non believers, they have not been called

 

[Benoni]

6 I have said, Ye are gods; (elohim)and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

 

[Ken Brown]

6 I have said, Ye are gods; (elohim)and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Hi Benoni, wasn't Yeshua speaking specifically about those who BELIEVE in Him, that they would BE One with the Father as He is One with the Father? So if you reason that Yeshua was Elohim in the flesh because He was One with the Father, wouldn't those who believe in Him ALSO be Elohim in the flesh? KB

 

[Benoni]

Hi Benoni, wasn't Yeshua speaking specifically about those who BELIEVE in Him, that they would BE One with the Father as He is One with the Father? So if you reason that Yeshua was Elohim in the flesh because He was One with the Father, wouldn't those who believe in Him ALSO be Elohim in the flesh? KB

I do not see God calling the whole world now, and He will in His timing. Who is the elohim company?

Great question. I am not clear on who; but I am sure God’s elect will rule and reign while most believers will not.

I know all born of Adam were created in God’s image and likeness but the elohim is not addressed in great detail; I am sure in God’s timing we will know

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) For as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.


1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[Ken Brown]

I do not see God calling the whole world now, and He will in His timing. Who is the elohim company?

Great question. I am not clear on who; but I am sure God’s elect will rule and reign while most believers will not.

I know all born of Adam were created in God’s image and likeness but the elohim is not addressed in great detail; I am sure in God’s timing we will know

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) For as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.


1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Hi Benoni, you referenced the fact that Yeshua was Elohim in the flesh because He was One with the Father. Are you retracting that stance? KB