If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Benoni]

I already explained. The mere fact that God tells Adam not to do something is a sure indication that Adam had a choice

BIG DEAL???



(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

 

[Benoni]

also pointed out that the entire book of Proverbs is dedicated to telling people to make the right choices.

What does this have to do with Adams choice

 

[Shermana]

Hell is a big fat religious lie. Notice I gave you two verses that all cursed by Adam will be made alive in Christ and you rejected them.

No, everything you post is a big fat religious lie.

See, what you're doing is attempting to bypass centuries of historical debate and controversy, as if your view is right and all other views are wrong, just because, without actually getting into it. You have bypassed my offer to debate on my thread on the subject. You are simply wrong. The concept of hell was in fact a religious concept in ancient Judaism, even the Rabbis agree.

Were you there with the early christians. Yes all scholars and commentators are not the Spirit of Truth but that is where you find your truth human carnal scholars and commentators and reject the spirit of truth ..

Have you considered the possibility that maybe you should ask yourself the same thing?

Who are you to tell anyone which of these all scholars and commentators is of God.

Who are you to tell anyone they're not?

Its all based on your bias opinion.

But of course yours isn't.

No I did not attack God's Word; I interpeted it by the facts their are two sides of the issue. One side you reject and that is the ultimate salvation of all men. The other you condemn billions with.

No, you are the one rejecting that there are any sides to the issue other than your own. I have good reason for my views. You are basing your view on nonstop presumptions which you fail to uphold. I have upheld every one of my views. I have made entire threads about my views in which I've successfully defended almost all of them, and changed a few since I realized a few things such as certain meanings behind what Paul said.

But you, you don't want to accept the possibility of interpretations that go beyond your own, because you think you are guided by the "Spirit of Truth", and thus can't POSSIBLY accept the idea that there are good reasons behind what I say. In fact, you WILL NOT EVEN ADDRESS WHAT I SAY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I have thought about your view, and I know the bible doesn't say what you're saying. You are twisting it like crazy, and then asking for proofs to deny your twisted interpretation, then when I provide a way of viewing the context which is the plain text reading that disproves your view, you simply swat it away and tell me I'm wrong without even explaining how, and then you repeat the same verses which I have proved you aren't even using in the right context.

It's beneath me to even reply to you at this point.

 

[Benoni]

You can post Romans 8:20 til the cows come home, that doesn't make it support what you're saying whatsoever. There's a reason why you persistently refuse to explain how it does. Likewise, I showed you that Psalms 90: 1-3 does NOT say what you're saying it says, you simply brushed it off and insisted on it as if you were right even when I proved it wrong.

Seeing you reject God's Word with your bias opinion that is all you have. Nothing more.

 

[Shermana]

also pointed out that the entire book of Proverbs is dedicated to telling people to make the right choices.

What does this have to do with Adams choice

It's called Context. You were talking about context earlier.

The concept is that, when God gives Adam a command, it's to test him and his free will.

When Proverbs gives commands, it's a way of testing their free will too.

You are the one getting some odd, competely NON-contextual interpretation of Psalm 90:1-3 and Romans 8:20 that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, yes NOTHING to do with it, and then using that as some means of getting out of the plain meaning of the text itself.

So do you believe Adam had some sort of special mind control that later humans didn't?

 

[Benoni]

What you're doing is basically denying and dismissing interpretations that disagree with yours just because you disagree with them, and then you come up with some non-answer based on a verse that doesn't even indicate what you're saying.

It's impossible debating with people like you. It really is. You're obviously not here to even debate, you're here to preach, and your preaching has been debunked.

What are you going to do, post 10 more times in a row those verses that don't even support what you're saying and dismiss and deny my reasoning behind the concept of Free Will in the Bible as if your verses somehow disprove it?

So where are your verses?????
Seeing you opinion IS ALL YOU HAVE

 

[Shermana]

You can post Romans 8:20 til the cows come home, that doesn't make it support what you're saying whatsoever. There's a reason why you persistently refuse to explain how it does. Likewise, I showed you that Psalms 90: 1-3 does NOT say what you're saying it says, you simply brushed it off and insisted on it as if you were right even when I proved it wrong.

Seeing you reject God's Word with your bias opinion that is all you have. Nothing more.

No, you are the one who rejects God's word. You are the one rejecting any interpretation that goes beyond your own, and in your case, you are defying the plain text reading.

This is about all you are capable of doing.

It's beyond pathetic.

I really don't think there's any hope for you, your ego has overwhelmed your rational thinking ability, it must have swelled by 100x after the brutal beating it took yesterday.

 

[Benoni]

It's called Context. You were talking about context earlier.

The concept is that, when God gives Adam a command, it's to test him and his free will.

When Proverbs gives commands, it's a way of testing their free will too.

You are the one getting some odd, competely NON-contextual interpretation of Psalm 90:1-3 and Romans 8:20 that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, yes NOTHING to do with it, and then using that as some means of getting out of the plain meaning of the text itself.

So do you believe Adam had some sort of special mind control that later humans didn't?

HOGWASH This all based on your bias assumpion NOTHING MORE.

 

[Shermana]

What you're doing is basically denying and dismissing interpretations that disagree with yours just because you disagree with them, and then you come up with some non-answer based on a verse that doesn't even indicate what you're saying.

It's impossible debating with people like you. It really is. You're obviously not here to even debate, you're here to preach, and your preaching has been debunked.

What are you going to do, post 10 more times in a row those verses that don't even support what you're saying and dismiss and deny my reasoning behind the concept of Free Will in the Bible as if your verses somehow disprove it?

So where are your verses?????
Seeing you opinion IS ALL YOU HAVE

Scripture verses for what, that Adam had free will?

Here you go:

English Standard Version
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

See, God is warning him not to eat of it. Why would he do that if it wasn't his Free Will decision to do so or not?

Do you have any verses that actually say he didn't have Free will? No you don't. Romans 8:20 is obviously out since it doesn't say anything close to what you're saying, so why don't you go by your own demands for scripture verses and prove that the plain text meaning of Genesis 2:17 doesn't mean its plain text meaning.


And here's one for that Humans have Free Will:

Joshua 24:15 ESV / 74 helpful votes

And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

 

[Benoni]

No, you are the one who rejects God's word. You are the one rejecting any interpretation that goes beyond your own, and in your case, you are defying the plain text reading.

This is about all you are capable of doing.

It's beyond pathetic.

I really don't think there's any hope for you, your ego has overwhelmed your rational thinking ability, it must have swelled by 100x after the brutal beating it took yesterday.

You are so blind. Not one verse do you give me ALL YOU HAVE IS YOUR BIA RELIGIOUS OPINION and nothing more.

 

[Shermana]

HOGWASH This all based on your bias assumpion NOTHING MORE.

Okay, so you refuse to answer a simple question or address a point, and then call it Hogwash and biased assumptions.

What's obvious is that you don't want to answer it because you know it proves your own hogwash biased assumptions wrong.

Now if you're not here to debate, get out already. Go to the DIRs where you can preach to your heart's content and you don't have to actually address people's counter arguments. Begone.

And please learn to use the quote feature properly, thank you.

 

[Shermana]

You are so blind. Not one verse do you give me ALL YOU HAVE IS YOUR BIA RELIGIOUS OPINION and nothing more.

I know you are but what am I?

That is exactly all you have.

As I said, this is all you are capable of doing. Your ego must be in terrible pain.

 

[Benoni]

Scripture verses for what, that Adam had free will?

Here you go:

English Standard Version
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

See, God is warning him not to eat of it. Why would he do that if it wasn't his Free Will decision to do so or not?

Do you have any verses that actually say he didn't have Free will? No you don't. Romans 8:20 is obviously out since it doesn't say anything close to what you're saying, so why don't you go by your own demands for scripture verses and prove that the plain text meaning of Genesis 2:17 doesn't mean its plain text meaning.


And here's one for that Humans have Free Will:

More assumptions no verses just bias.

Because It was God's plan for Adam to make Adam fall.

Do you have any verse anyone has a freewill
Freewill is not even mentioned in the Bible accept afreewill offering in the OT which has nothing to do with Adam Fall or salvation

here another translation

Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.

 

[Shermana]

Wow. Just wow.

They had no word for Determinism.

They had no word for "Free will" either.

It's about the concept.

The Bible clearly, most clearly implies that humans are given the choice.

And your other translation doesn't come close to supporting your view either. I already showed you what it means. It means that Creation did not choose to be subjected, it was because of Adam's curse that it was subjected. It was because of Adam's actions. I showed you the commentaries. But you wouldn't even be able to get into the Greek. You think your reading of the English is all that matters!!! You simply brush off any attempt to bring in other authorities who have read it in the actual Greek, and double down on your own reading as if it's matter of fact. You don't care about any other commentator who has translated it differently. You wouldn't even know what the words in question are.

Would you like to do the honorable thing and tell me that I'm right again and admit error or are you going to let your ferocious ego embarass you further and further?

 

[Benoni]

I know you are but what am I?

That is exactly all you have.

As I said, this is all you are capable of doing. Your ego must be in terrible pain.

It is not my ego it is yours. I quote God's Word and you spin, spin, spin and not quote nothing but your bias opinion That is ego to the max. you are so wrong and you know it and are lying to yourself

 

[Benoni]

Wow. Just wow.

They had no word for Determinism.

They had no word for "Free will" either.

It's about the concept.

And your other translation doesn't come close to supporting your view either. I already showed you what it means. It means that Creation did not choose to be subjected, it was because of Adam's curse that it was subjected. It was because of Adam's actions. I showed you the commentaries. But you wouldn't even be able to get into the Greek. You think your reading of the English is all that matters!!! You simply brush off any attempt to bring in other authorities who have read it in the actual Greek, and double down on your own reading as if it's matter of fact. You don't care about any other commentator who has translated it differently. You wouldn't even know what the words in question are.

Would you like to do the honorable thing and tell me that I'm right again and admit error or are you going to let your ferocious ego embarass you further and further?

More spin. You can spin God's Word all you want with translations but until you show us your bias opinion in God's Word it is nothing but more hot air.

 

[Shermana]

It is not my ego it is yours. I quote God's Word and you spin, spin, spin and not quote nothing but your bias opinion That is ego to the max. you are so wrong and you know it and are lying to yourself

No, you are the one who spins it.

We can go back and forth like this all day.

The fact is, you are simply dishonest, you have no shred of honesty whatsoever, you have a raging ego, you refuse to accept any interpretation outside of your own, you have a complete inability or unwillingness to discuss context or grammar or language issues, you think you have the "Spirit of Truth" when you do in fact not, and you are the one who is lying to yourself.

But since there's absolutely no way of getting through to you, let's just ask the Spirit to settle it for us, yes? Let's ask for the Spirit to show which one of us is lying about God's word and which one of us is speaking the truth, I think that's just about the only way to settle it with the stubbonrly dishonest. I wouldn't even doubt if you re possessed with demons.

 

[Shermana]

More spin. You can spin God's Word all you want with translations but until you show us your bias opinion in God's Word it is nothing but more hot air.

I really see no more point in even trying to talk to you, you're an embarassment to debate, you should not be here, you just want to preach and duck and dodge and ignore any counter-argument or people with sources, and you insist that only your interpretation is right. I've shown you how my view is clearly demonstrated, and you just swat it away without even addressing it, you just dismiss it without even addressing anything I say. What's the use? I already did a fine job demonstrating that Humans have choice, and that God gave Adam a choice.

I can't even explain how grossly bloated your ego is at this point. It's like a blob that has overcome you completely.

 

[Benoni]

No, you are the one who spins it.

We can go back and forth like this all day.

The fact is, you are simply dishonest, you have no shred of honesty whatsoever, you have a raging ego, you refuse to accept any interpretation outside of your own, you have a complete inability or unwillingness to discuss context or grammar or language issues, you think you have the "Spirit of Truth" when you do in fact not, and you are the one who is lying to yourself.

But since there's absolutely no way of getting through to you, let's just ask the Spirit to settle it for us, yes? Let's ask for the Spirit to show which one of us is lying about God's word and which one of us is speaking the truth, I think that's just about the only way to settle it with the stubbonrly dishonest. I wouldn't even doubt if you re possessed with demons.

Spin and HOGWASH. Wow

 

[Benoni]

Read this please:

Matt 7:13-15 13 is not speaking to sinners, God’s Word is written to believers because the world could careless what God’s Word says, for they are dead in trespasses and sin. You quote the scripture Matt 7:13-15 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

A narrow way is your approach to God’s Word with no, I mean no preconceived bias. There is no room for your religious baggage, it is far too narrow. Men follow their false prophets in other words: religion, creeds, dogmas, Popes, pastors and orthodoxy; and reject the Christ with in us all.