No. Not at all.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
If Jesus was God, explain this verse...
- Thread starter Aamer
- Start date
No. Not at all.
Ken Brown
Well-Known Member
Hi Benoni, well, then why not admit that Believers are also Elohim in the flesh, JUST as Yeshua was? Why only Him? KB
I cannot admit something I am not 100% clear on. I assume this is true but God does have is elect and then there are just believers as well as the lost who are not called in this age. Not enough information giving on Elohim. A few great verses; thats about it unless I discover more of course.
Ken Brown
Well-Known Member
Hi Benoni, my point in all this is that Yeshua was NOT Elohim in the flesh, He was ONLY a man, as He and those who Believe are One with the Father. Yeshua did not become the Only Begotten UNTIL He was resurrected as Acts points out.
Now, I must say that I agree with your reasoning about Adam and Eve NOT having freewill. Yeshua said that he who sins is a slave of sin, so how can a slave have free will? KB
Interesting. I have no problem with what you are saying. But just like Adam and Eve they had a life before the fall and I speak of Adam and Eve I speak of the whole Adamic race. For Adam was created in God's image and likeness first.
Point being who was Jesus before he was a man?
One has to read with eyes that can see, to realize we were 'flawed by design'.
ISA 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
ROM 5:20 Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
ROM 11:8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day."
GAL 3:22 But thescripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. .
Jeremiah 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Arise and go down to the potters house, and there I will cause you to hear My words. 3 Then I went down to the potters house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter? says the LORD. Look, as the clay is in the potters hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the LORD: Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.
12 And they said, That is hopeless! So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of his evil heart.
13 Therefore thus says the LORD:
Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Where you get that?
Ken, how is it that by first man Adam, sin entered? Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
If that is true, then what man born of Adam could atone for his own sin?
Now, if a body is form out of flesh but the spirit is not of Adam but of God, wouldn't that make Jesus both son of man and son of God?
The son of man....is a body prepared.
Verse for the body of flesh: Heb_10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared
me: Gal_4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, (flesh)
The Son of God: Mar 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Mankind as it were was without hope, but a man of flesh and with the Spirit of God having no sin, becomes the offering for the hopelessness of mankind.
I don't understand how the simplicity of the gospel can be so complicated that there is confusion as to whether Jesus was God in the flesh or not.
Blessings, AJ
Nicely written, AMEN
kjw47
Well-Known Member
ot-- Jesus name never mentioned but was always the 2nd in command--- 1 thess 4:16--upon his return, Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel--his voice.
Revelation--Michael leads Gods armies, Jesus leads Gods armies--one and the same.
Jesus has many symbolism who He is. Just because He comes with the voice of the Archangel does not make Him micheal
kjw47
Well-Known Member
both names mentioned leading Gods armies does, only Jesus has the right to battle satan--it was all set up in genesis that way. It is Jesus' voice--he is Michael---God would never come down here and let creations treat him like a piece of ---- and then murder him--never.
Hebrews 1:4-6 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Jesus clearly isn't an angel.
Jesus clearly isn't an angel.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Greek word Proskenau-- had 4 different meanings from greek to English--1) worship to God--2) obeisance to a king--and 2 others---- now concerning the messiah Jesus--the Israelite teachers were expecting a mighty king--not God--so obeisance is the correct usage of that greek word where the messiah is spoken about. Trinity translations are filled with errors to mislead-2 cor 11:12-15)
But, it says he is made so much better than angels. So he can't be an angel.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Yes he was made the king of Gods kingdom for 1000 years--after he hands it back he will be in subjection to his God and Father-1 cor 15:24-28
Sure. It is the Son of man that must reign. Not an angel. So it says sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy foot stool. These are the enemies of mankind. God came in the form of man to take our enemies as His own enemies. We never could defeat them ourselves. Death, sin, Satan, the flesh. So it's for a reason that a man must reign and a man must sit on the right hand of all power for our sakes. The reason God came in the form of man.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
No man sits at the right hand of power-- a mighty spirit sits there. 1 peter 3:18
Jesus was made lower than the angels as a mortal--now he is king of kings--Gods appointed king for 1000 years. And for those who listen to Jesus' truths know at the end of the Lords prayer--Jesus teaches--it all belongs to the Father.
That verse is saying He was made alive, in other words, resurrected by the holy Spirit. However, of course He is in glorified form now, as described in Revelation 1. Yet, Jesus remains the Son of man. Yes it all belongs to the Father. Jesus was the manifestation of the Father in human form.
And, there is a difference between Jesus' reign on the right hand in heaven which is now, and His thousand years reign directly on earth which hasn't happened yet. The thousand year reign is, I guess part of His reign on the right hand, but it hasn't begun yet. The purpose of His reign on the right hand is to subdue all of mankind's enemies. The thousand year reign is obviously part of that mission. He must first break the kingdoms of this world as a potter's vessel and then set up His kingdom on earth. The ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's statue will be destroyed and the Lord's kingdom will then fill the earth. Then, He will rule over land and sea. All the creatures there in. Fulfilling God's original directive to Adam. To rule over the earth and the animals. "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." So I believe, at that time man's enemies such as the thorns(the curse put on the ground Gen 3:17) will be subdued also. And the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.
So there is a constant in all this, which is God coming in the form of man, taking our enemies as His enemies and defeating those enemies for our sakes. So, He could reconcile man unto Himself. Thus, we see that God promised so many great powers to a man(the Messiah) in the prophecies. It was necessary that man receive these powers to defeat these enemies that had power over man. He knew it would be Himself that received those powers, for our sakes. So the scripture says "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." And in Revelation it says "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."
And it says
For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the Lord behold the earth; To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death; To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; (Psalm 102:19-21)
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. (Isaiah 59:16)
Last edited: