If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Yes]

Blasphemy

You just blasphemed.

 

[Yes]

The instances where Yeshua appeared to sound like he was God the Father Himself are relatively few. But one cannot read the gospels or the book of Revelation without getting the picture over and over again that Yeshua looked up to God as his Father, and did not consider himself equal to Him. There are a number of times where he outright said so, even calling God his God. Here are a few examples.

"You have heard me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you,' If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28

Yahshua said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.'" John 20:17

And at the ninth hour Yahshua cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?" Mark 15:34

"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, And I will write on him my new name." Revelation 3:12

And from Revelation, John himself reaffirms that YHVH is Yeshua's God.

...and from Yahshua the Messiah, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth, To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and has made us a kingdom of priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Revelation 1:5,6

There is also in the book of Revelation these interesting words of Yeshua concerning himself.

"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:" Revelation 3:14

Yeshua's own testimony concerning himself appears to indicate that he had a beginning in that he was the first of God's creations. But however one wants to interpret this, it is evident that Yahshua is in some way, the creation of YHWH, and therefore not YHWH Himself.

There might not be any reasoning with you, ever, for you blasphemed what the scriptures say about the Holy Spirit.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus is not God. He is not co-equal. He was born. The bible tells us that he was made like us. His brethern. Hebrews 2, along with many other books in the bible, tells us that he was just like us in nature. God was his Father, but he was also the son of man. David was also his father. Read Mathew 1. Read 2 Samuel 7. David even knew that someone from him would be the Messiah. Very simple to understand. Jesus had to conquer sin in the flesh. Which he did. If he was God, that would not even make sense. Trinity is false doctrine and totally degrades our Creator!!!!

I have proven over and over that He is God in the flesh.

I believe there is no evidence to support this.

It makes sense so it must mean that you have not followed the rules of logic.

 

[Muffled]

You believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual person. Wouldnt that make him Jesus's father?
Even Mary knew what the Holy Spirit was. The power of God. It is part of God, not a separate person.

Luke 1 v 35 is just one of many verses that tell us that.

I beleive that is a JW belief that does not hold water.

I see no evidence to support this.

I believe God is one and therfore does not have parts.

I beleive there is sufficient evidence that God is one person in all three members of the trinity.

In what way? I see no way.

 

[Muffled]

All thru scripture it talks about God's Spirit. Doesnt have to be titled "Holy Spirit", but it talks about the spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord. Same thing. The Holy Spirit is not a separate person. It is the wisdom and power of Yahweh.

I believe Holy Spirit is used in the NT to denote the Paraclete. The Paraclete did not exist in the OT.

I believe that is correct ie that the Paraclete is the person of God.

Again I beleive this is a JW teaching that does not hold water. Are you saying that God does not have personal attributes?

 

[Muffled]

Blasphemy

I believe this is scripturally correct. When I receive Jesus it is not as a physical man but as a life-giving Spirit.

 

[Simplelogic]

I believe this is scripturally correct. When I receive Jesus it is not as a physical man but as a life-giving Spirit.

Did Yeshua say this?

 

[Simplelogic]

I have proven over and over that He is God in the flesh.

I believe there is no evidence to support this.

It makes sense so it must mean that you have not followed the rules of logic.

I would be happy to debate this with you one on one if you want.

 

[Yes]

I believe this is scripturally correct. When I receive Jesus it is not as a physical man but as a life-giving Spirit.

Amen.

 

[BadDog]

I think that if God was the person of Jesus and God was in heaven when Jesus was here, then God is two and not one.

I think many in this forum do not understand what trinitarianism teaches: One God (in essence); three (distinct) persons.

 

[savagewind]

I think many in this forum do not understand what trinitarianism teaches: One God (in essence); three (distinct) persons.

I understand that. But God is Creator so EVERYTHING has God's essence. How many does everything make? It's not three.

 

[BadDog]

Your assertion that the Logos is timeless and eternal is based on what scriptural authority?

John 1:1-18 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things came into being by him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.In him was life,and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it.

A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him. He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world came into being by him, but the world did not recognize him. He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him. But to all who have received him – those who believe in his name – he has given the right to become God’s children – children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because He existed before me.’” For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. The only one, Himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.​

BadDog

 

[BadDog]

I understand that. But God is Creator so EVERYTHING has God's essence. How many does everything make? It's not three.

I disagree that everything has God's essence, just because he created everything. That is pantheism. If I create a painting, does it have my very essence?

BadDog

 

[savagewind]

I disagree that everything has God's essence, just because he created everything. That is pantheism. If I create a painting, does it have my very essence?

BadDog

It does not have your "very" essence. But yes it does have your essence. A master forgery is able to be discerned because each piece of art DOES have the artist's essence. So God does not live in every created thing. But every created thing does have God's essence on it.

I believe Jesus was in touch with all of God's essence on and in him. I believe The God is satisfied anyone can know God by knowing Jesus Christ. I won't argue that Jesus is or isn't God. I think the arguments are stupid.

 

[rusra02]

John 1:1-18 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things came into being by him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.In him was life,and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it.

A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him. He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world came into being by him, but the world did not recognize him. He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him. But to all who have received him – those who believe in his name – he has given the right to become God’s children – children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because He existed before me.’” For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. The only one, Himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.​

BadDog

The beginning according to the Bible is when God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1) At that time, Jehovah had already created numerous spirit sons, including his only-begotten Son. (Job 38:4,7) so, I believe the Word was with his Father, God, in the beginning. In contrast, regarding Jehovah Psalm 90:2 declares; "Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God." Thus, God had no beginning, unlike his Son who is the "firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)

 

[BadDog]

The beginning according to the Bible is when God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1) At that time, Jehovah had already created numerous spirit sons, including his only-begotten Son. (Job 38:4,7) so, I believe the Word was with his Father, God, in the beginning. In contrast, regarding Jehovah Psalm 90:2 declares; "Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God." Thus, God had no beginning, unlike his Son who is the "firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)

Greetings. Thx for the comments. I love that verse, BTW!

Now Jesus is "the firstborn of all creation," and you argue that this indicates that the Son had a beginning... that He was created by God. But remember the idea there is that Jesus, as the firstborn, receives a double inheritance. It indicates his preeminence in rank. We can receive that same blessing if we serve Him faithfully. Romans 8:16, 17 makes that clear.

The Greek term πρωτότοκος (PRṐTOTOKOS) could refer either to first in order of time, such as a first born child, or it could refer to one who is preeminent in rank. The "firstborn" here in koine Greek was either the eldest child in a family or a person of preeminent rank. The use of this term to describe the Davidic king in Ps 89:27 LXX (Greek Septuagint) illustrates this usage: "I will also make him my firstborn (πρωτότοκον), the greatest of all the kings of the earth." (Psalm 88:28 in the actual LXX, but 89:27 in our Bibles.) πρωτότοκος can indicate supremacy in rank as well as priority in time. But whether the πρωτό- part of the word indicates time, rank, or both, the significance of the -τοκος portion as indicating birth or origin (from τίκτω, to give birth to) has been virtually lost. So in Colossians 1:15 the emphasis is on the priority of Jesus’ rank as over and above creation. It does not indicate that He was created. πρωτότοκος is actually seldom used in that manner.

One can look this up in either BDAG or Liddell-Scott, the two top lexicons, and you'll see that the above is true. (Much of the above, FYI, came from a footnote... I think the NET Bible.)

It is not possible for the One who is outside time and space to not be God, or to have come into existence. I think you agree with me there. The Son has always existed. He became "flesh" at a point in time--around 2000 years ago--but he always existed, as John 1:1-18 indicates. Jesus created all that has come into being, and without Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1). In Colossians 1 we read that He created all things.

In John 1:1-4 we read that Jesus was "in the beginning," an obvious intent to refer to Genesis 1. It also says that the Word (Jesus, the Son) was with (προς - PROS - in close intimate proximity) the Father (God - QEOS) and that the Word (Jesus, come in the flesh - see 1:14) was God. It does not say "a god." Actually, the Greek does not have an indefinite article ("a" or "an"). And it had not been that long since the demonstrative pronoun had evolved into the definite article. The point is simply that the article in koine Greek was used much differently than we use it today in English. When an article is present, identification is in general intended, and when it is absent, in general the quality or characteristics is intended. In other Word, "what God was the Word was" is perhaps the best translation, according to Moffett, for John 1:1c.

Now, just in case there are any question about whom Jesus claimed to be when He said that "before Abraham was, I am" the Jews clearly understood Him to be claiming to be God, and in the latter part of John 8 it specifically says that they took up stones to stone him because "you being a man make yourself out to be God." Jesus did not correct them when they made this statement.

So then, Jesus, the Son of God, was always God. But He became a human being ("the Son of Man").

BD

 

[savagewind]

....and long

 

[Unification]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

Satan is the ego in every individual. A human mind's carnal thoughts and carnal desires. The Christ is not a fleshly figure.... The Christ is in every individual. Different term in other religions. Either dead or resurrected, in every individual. Jesus was crucified at the place of the skull, Golgatha. What is between the skull? It's all a battle of the human head and heart. Only the spirit can discern scripture written by spirit. All in this world is divide and arguing when their is one truth. All scriptures refer to the human body and the transformation of an individual internally in ones brain/mind/heart.

 

[Unification]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

peace to you. The devil is in all humans. Satan is the ego, pride, self gratification. The serpent is the human carnal mind. The beast is the flesh. Jesus was "led by the Spirit" , not his own ego and mind and flesh. In the wilderness, which he fasted forty days and forty nights (meditated on God) ...his temptations were his own human thoughts within.... He could create his own fleshly kingdom and man empire or do Gods will. He was crucified at Golgatha (the place of the skull) .... In other words the mind. The Christ or in other religions it is a different term.... Is within every individual. Same exact principle. We must crucify our carnal nature and raise our spiritual nature. That holds unity in all religions. All humans are to be led and taught by the Spirit. . And conquer the Satan within ourselves.

 

[Brandon Brossett]

Rev 12:9 says "satan was cast In the earth to deceive the world" which sounds like he has done a good job.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood. But against ..........., rulers of darkness if this Present world