If No One Believed In God...

[ppp]

But what are they investigating? Atheists I'm sure investigated to see if God was real or not. And I'm sure others, like myself, assumed God was real and investigated which religion made more sense.

That was how I started. Assuming that God was real, then when I got serious about my faith, I did some investigation and discovered that no one appeared to know what they were talking about. Lots and lots of experts on what other people have said about God, but nothing else.

Then some person comes along and says these Gods aren't real and smashes them. But how do we smash an invisible God? The beliefs are all in person's mind that they got from someone telling them about that God and by reading what someone wrote about that God. Sounded good, made them happy, so why not believe? But I'm sure people thought the same way about their stone Gods too.

I am sure that it feels like someone is smashing God, but how can they? If he is real, then he is unsmashable. If he is imaginary, then there is nothing to smash. I have friends who have had to deal with religious trauma and still have to work through the fears and shames that were instilled upon them. People who irrationally fear Hell. People who catch themselves falling into the toxic sex roles that they were taught by their religion. Fortunately (for me), I have never had to deal with that sort of thing with respect to religion. My interactions with religions, both my original, and the ones I subsequently engaged with were all rather pleasant affairs. All this is to say, I wish I knew.

 

[Trailblazer]

Religious leaders have told you what to believe.

The Baha'i Faith has no clergy. We all decide what to believe on our own.

 

[firedragon]

The difference is that evidence led us to the discovery of Saturn which in turn allowed us to formulate a belief that was drawn from conclusions grounded in evidence.

But Saturn didnt exist prior to you finding evidence. Thats your whole theory. Until people believed Saturn existed, it didnt exist.

From your perspective, Saturn magically appeared the day it was discovered. Wonder how they discovered something that never existed prior to the discovery.

 

[Trailblazer]

It makes a difference to nothing at all, it's merely a belief of yours that it makes a difference to anything that matters. Why do you keep trying to convince yourself?

It makes a big difference to what matters most, and that will become more clear in the next life although I am not sure it will become clear to atheists.
What do you think matters, this earthly life that perishes?
I do not have to try to convince myself, I was convinced over 51 years ago, and I am still convinced.

 

[Willamena]

If No One Believed In God...

Would God exist?

Logically, yes, God might exist under those conditions.

Existence isn't predicate on belief.

 

[lukethethird]

But Saturn didnt exist prior to you finding evidence. Thats your whole theory. Until people believed Saturn existed, it didnt exist.

From your perspective, Saturn magically appeared the day it was discovered. Wonder how they discovered something that never existed prior to the discovery.

What does that have to do with a belief in an unevidenced god?

 

[firedragon]

What does that have to do with a belief in an unevidenced god?

Same logic as yours. Read your own OP.

Have a good day.

 

[lukethethird]

Logically, yes, God might exist under those conditions.

Existence isn't predicate on belief.

Nor the logic that would lead us to believe.

 

[Clara Tea]

If No One Believed In God...

Would God exist?

If no one heard a tree fall, the tree would still exist, though there would be no proof.

 

[Clara Tea]

Isn't it?

It's what makes God a god.

What would God be if it weren't a god?

When Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden, God gave Satan domain of the earth. It seems odd that a good God would do that. Doesn't cooperating with evil make one evil?

Is the God that we pray to really God, or is everyone praying to Satan?

 

[Clara Tea]

I fully agree. I am an exception since my parents did not raise me in a religion since they were both 'fallen away' Christians. My mother retained a belief in God but my father became an atheist but nobody ever talked about God in my household.

Then everyone (of whatever religioin) is very lucky to have been born to the right religion. But that means that there are nearly as many right religions as people.

 

[Clara Tea]

Why see it as an error? People that have religion are happier.

If the goal of religion is happiness, then one doesn't really need religion. One could sit in an insane asylem, mumblinig to onesself, completely oblivious to the world around them, and still be happy.

I am not, by the way, insinuating that theists are insane--merely that happiness is a state of mind that can be achieved in a variety of ways.

 

[Clara Tea]

Nothing, so having said that, what precautions should we take prior to formulating a belief?

Precautions: Don't believe unless proven. But that means that much of science shouldn't be believed.

Scientists caution us that they don't make proofs, but theories, and that their current theories are the most correct that they can get with current knowledge. Scientists are willing to change their theories as new data is revealed. However, theists are far more reluctant to change. For example, scientists proved that the Shroud of Turin dates far later than the life of Jesus, so could not have been his. This does not deter theists.

 

[Clara Tea]

That was how I started. Assuming that God was real, then when I got serious about my faith, I did some investigation and discovered that no one appeared to know what they were talking about. Lots and lots of experts on what other people have said about God, but nothing else.

I am sure that it feels like someone is smashing God, but how can they? If he is real, then he is unsmashable. If he is imaginary, then there is nothing to smash. I have friends who have had to deal with religious trauma and still have to work through the fears and shames that were instilled upon them. People who irrationally fear Hell. People who catch themselves falling into the toxic sex roles that they were taught by their religion. Fortunately (for me), I have never had to deal with that sort of thing with respect to religion. My interactions with religions, both my original, and the ones I subsequently engaged with were all rather pleasant affairs. All this is to say, I wish I knew.

I agree that an all-powerful and all-knowing God is unsmashable. Also, I agree that there is nothing to smash if God is imaginary.

There is an entire branch of Philosophy that deals with existence (existentialism). In that, it becomes apparent that we can't really be sure that we exist.

So, if God is imaginary, that's okay, because we're imaginary too.

 

[Clara Tea]

How it that even a question? God existed long before humans did.

Good point. To theists, God currently exists, and did exist at least when he made mankind. So, God must have existed long before anyone was around to know that He existed.

 

[lukethethird]

Precautions: Don't believe unless proven. But that means that much of science shouldn't be believed.

Scientists caution us that they don't make proofs, but theories, and that their current theories are the most correct that they can get with current knowledge. Scientists are willing to change their theories as new data is revealed. However, theists are far more reluctant to change. For example, scientists proved that the Shroud of Turin dates far later than the life of Jesus, so could not have been his. This does not deter theists.

Yes, all beliefs should be held loosely, clinging desperately to the faith based beliefs might be a result of emotions, fear, or prejudice.

 

[blü 2]

If No One Believed In God...

Would God exist?

Yes, but not in any way different to the way [he] presently exists.

 

[Ella S.]

In my opinion, no. Like gender and morality, "God" is a construct that we invented to gain a deeper understanding of ourselves. It's not a literal being external to us.

 

[ChristineM]

If no one heard a tree fall, the tree would still exist, though there would be no proof.

The fallen tree could be observed as fallen at a later date.. that is evidence that the tree has fallen.

 

[ChristineM]

When Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden, God gave Satan domain of the earth. It seems odd that a good God would do that. Doesn't cooperating with evil make one evil?

Is the God that we pray to really God, or is everyone praying to Satan?

Personally i think satan the more humane choice. According to the bible god murdered/killed/slaughtered/committed genocide and over 2 million humans lay dead. (Excluding the flood where all life but a close buddy and his family died). Satan's kill count is 10, and they were at gods command