You worship the "dragon" the authority of the "beast" when you no doubt worship his sun god ever day of the sun, being Sunday. You worship the dogma, doctrine, and canon of his Roman church, conceived under the authority of Pontifex Maximus Constantine, which Caesar usurped from the pagan priest, along with his emperor authority passed on by way of the Augustus Caesars. Just the other day, you were trying to tell me that Caesar was being worshipped by using the Roman coin with Caesar's image. Try and stay on one side of the fence at a time. The name "Caesar" means emperor/dictator, and the world is full of them, and of those wanting to be emperor for 42 months or 8 years.
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If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
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- bible christianity discovery
You worship the "dragon" the authority of the "beast" when you no doubt worship his sun god ever day of the sun, being Sunday. You worship the dogma, doctrine, and canon of his Roman church, conceived under the authority of Pontifex Maximus Constantine, which Caesar usurped from the pagan priest, along with his emperor authority passed on by way of the Augustus Caesars. Just the other day, you were trying to tell me that Caesar was being worshipped by using the Roman coin with Caesar's image. Try and stay on one side of the fence at a time. The name "Caesar" means emperor/dictator, and the world is full of them, and of those wanting to be emperor for 42 months or 8 years.
sooda
Veteran Member
Most Christians go to church on Sunday to celebrate that Jesus rose from the grave .. Is Jesus the "sun god"?
Daniel and John of Patmos were not fortunetellers.
Caesar's image was on Roman coin and the Jews hated that.. That's why the Jews had to change Roman coin to Shekels to buy sacrifices at the Temple. Jesus got mad because the moneychangers were taking a fee and cheating the poor.
There are no emperors or Caesars these days.
I see your point. My nephew, Daniel, was probably born in the 70s, and definitely not in Babylon. But on the other hand, the only writing he has done, that I am aware of, is a tractor maintenance guide. Your problem is that Daniel, of the book of Daniel, prophesized future events, the most dramatic, was the crushing of Babylon, Persia, and the Greeks, by the Romans (Daniel 7:7), and goes on to show the end crushing event of a combination of Rome/iron, and the Muslims/clay (Daniel 2:33), mixed in the seed of men, which happened in 1918, and 1967, and which will happen again per Daniel 2:44-45. Your reading of one sentence out of some book, blog, or web site, leaves you apparently strained and confused. Try taking time out of your hectic day and reading the whole book of Daniel.
lukethethird
unknown member
"They" would be any given church leaders that chose the books that were useful for their theo/political agenda. Most agendas were about controlling the masses, eg., promising the masses their rewards after they die would be useful.
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Yeshua's followers did not go to church on Sunday, the day of the sun to "celebrate that Jesus rose from the grave". The grave is the message of Paul (Isaiah 28:18). Yeshua's message was to "enter into life" (Matthew 7:14), and to enter into the "kingdom of heaven, at hand". Passover was on the 14th of Nissan, the next day, the 15th of Nissan, was the high holy Sabbath of the feast of Unleavened bread, which was the reason the burial ceremony was supposed to have happened prior to sunset. It was 3 days and 3 nights later, "late on the Sabbath" (Matthew 28:1), that the grave was found empty. The Passover was the 4th day of week on that year, and the grave was empty on the evening of the 7th day of the week. There was no 1st day of the week involved, except supposedly in some versions, after the dawn of the 1st day of the week, which happens on the evening of the 7th day of the week, the grave was found empty.
King James Bible Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.
The 20th century was full of Caesars and emperors. Czar is the Russian spelling of Caesar. Kaiser, is the German spelling of Caesar. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, were all basically dictators/emperors. Anyone who rules by a cell phone and pen, would be considered a dictator. The dictators of today are better camouflaged by having control of the media, and the voting machine. If they appear in the news with a halo around their head, you had better beware.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You still haven't answered my question, so why is that?
Maybe because I don't belong to any of the "daughters of Babylon" (Revelation 17:5). Maybe, like John the Baptist, I am simply a lone voice in the wilderness, which sounds the trumpet of the "wrath to come" (Matthew 3:7). Maybe you should take a lead from the "brood of vipers", confess your sins, repent, and get baptized in the "Holy Spirit" (Matthew 3:11), or risk being baptized in the "fire". But wait, what do you have to repent from? You have been "released from the Law" (Romans 7:6). Your priest can give you pre Vatican II Extreme Unction. Wait, what happened to that supposed "sacrament"? Are you now going to have to go to hell, it you die in your sins? Oh, woe with me, I am so confused about what it takes to save a Catholic parishioner. Maybe, like Constantine, you can get some Arian monk to baptize you on your death bed, or at least to take your confession. Oh wait, the Arians were basically excommunicated. Maybe you should check the background of your priest, before laying you salvation in his hands.
Augustus
…
"How can we best control the masses chaps?"
'How about choosing between some books written a few centuries ago by followers of a little minority religion that over 90% of the masses don't belong to and is being oppressed at the moment but might become popular over the next few centuries long after we are dead?'
"Great idea chaps, the masses won't know what hit them."
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
"IF", If the world never came into existence.
sooda
Veteran Member
The author of Daniel is unknown.. The author was writing about the Exile in Babylon .. The author was actually living in 165 BC at the time of the Maccabean Revolt.
The history that "Daniel" gets wrong is curious. The story of the Jews of Babylon begins in the 434 BCE, when the Babylonians first marched on Israel as part of their campaign to stake claim to the former Assyrian empire.
In that first foray, the Babylonians did not destroy the Temple, nor send the Jews into exile. However, they did succeed in taking into captivity 10,000 of the best and brightest Jews.
Remember the "good figs and bad figs"? The good figs went into exile. The exile turns out to be a blessing in disguise .
It may help if you realize that Dan'el is a Canaanite poem from 1500 BC. The Hebrews borrowed that story too.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The Bible was never discovered... It was compiled from Known documents.
it is possible that earlier copies of those source documents will continue to be found.
Versions of Bible, like the New Revised Standard Version take all new findings and scholarship into consideration when they are updated.
it is possible that earlier copies of those source documents will continue to be found.
Versions of Bible, like the New Revised Standard Version take all new findings and scholarship into consideration when they are updated.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
So... is it salvation comes from trusting Him (faith = trust) or works (do = works)?
I'm SURE the Christian gospel has no WORKS in it. Neither does SAVING FAITH that James talks about... can that FAITH save a person (chapter 2)?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Luke wrote about meetings with Paul and commissions for Paul. What you've one above is stated the fulfillment of certain prophecies as Peter, Paul, etc. -- stances which no religious or secular scholars I know of believe.
For another issue, you are claiming that salvation comes by food, that Paul somehow did something wrong with food, though JESUS said, "Whatever you eat passes through the alimentary canal and the HEART is the space for cleanness/uncleannes". Again, I find that people who dislike Paul, Peter, etc. don't know what Jesus said or taught or true Christian doctrine of the four GOSPELS.
Well, the message given to Paul, as stipulated by the unknown author of Acts, was that Paul was to tell others not to eat things sacrificed to idols. Paul went ahead and said it was all right to eat things sacrificed to idols/gods. As for there being gods or no gods, the god of the declared god Caesar, the sun god, is the god worshipped by Christians, who worship on the day of the sun, per the decree of Augustus Caesar Constantine, in the year 321 AD. As for the prophecy of Zechariah 11, it is with regards to 3 shepherds who were to die in the same "month"/generation (Zechariah 11:8). One of those shepherds was identified in Matthew 27:3 & 9-10, when Zechariah 11:12-13 was quoted in respect to Judas and the "thirty pieces of silver". As for "religious scholars", give me a break. They are part of the church of Peter and Paul, and would be listed among the "wicked"/lawless of Daniel 12:10, who would not understand, even at the "end of the age", when the "stumbling blocks"/Peter, and "those who commit lawlessness/Paul, will be "gathered out" (Matthew 13:39-42).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Well, apparently you're not familiar with this list of does and don't from Jesus' Sermon On the Mount:
Matthew 5[27]"You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.'
[28] But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
[29] If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
[30] And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
[31]
"It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
[32] But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
[33]
"Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
[34] But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
[35] or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
[36] And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
[37] Let what you say be simply `Yes' or `No'; anything more than this comes from evil.
[38]"You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
[39] But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;
[40] and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;
[41] and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
[42] Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.
[43]
"You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
[44] But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
[45] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46] For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
[47] And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
[48] You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matt.6
[1]"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
[2]"Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
[3] But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
[4] so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
[5]"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
[6] But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
[7]"And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
[8] Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[9] Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread;
[12] And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
[13] And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
[16]"And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
[17] But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
[18] that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
[19]"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal,
[20] but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal.
[21] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
[22]"The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light;
[23] but if your eye is not sound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
[24]"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
[25]"Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
[26] Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
[27] And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his span of life?
[28] And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin;
[29] yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[30] But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith?
[31] Therefore do not be anxious, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?'
[32] For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.
[33] But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well.
[34]"Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day.
Matt.7
[1]"Judge not, that you be not judged.
[2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
[3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
[4] Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
[5] You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
[6]"Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you.
[7]"Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[8] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
[9] Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
[10] Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
[11] If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
[12] So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
[13]"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
[15]"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
[16] You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?
[17] So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit.
[18] A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[20] Thus you will know them by their fruits.
[21]"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
[23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'
[24]"Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock;
[25] and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
[26] And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand;
[27] and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it."
[28]And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching,
[29] for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Still ranting and raving your venomous spewing hatred against two of the top apostles of Jesus the chosen one.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It would be interesting to know how the Catholic Church acquired the Bible back in the day prior to any later discovery that may and has come about.
There's no getting around that the medieval Catholic church would be the oldest caretakers of whatever manuscript they were copying from. I'm dying to know what that is, or even if it's still around.
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
The only bible that the church of Emperor Constantine acquired was the bible of the Hebrews, which they translated to Latin, The new Testament was a collection of letters from the Apostles and others that they corrupted in their attempts to verify their false teachings, anything outside their chosen Canon, is too be considered as poisonous to the mind, and should not be eaten as spiritual food, by her obedient gullible children..
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Why do you suggest the Catholic was the oldest church, Paul and the Apostles establish many churches before the Roman Church was established. The Coptic, Ethopian , Greek and Jerusalem churches are at least as old in their earliest forms. to this day they all have different Bibles with different selections of Books. There never has been a single universal Bible.