If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

[sooda]

The "mother Roman Catholic church" (universal Christian church), is a "harlot" daughter of Babylon, and the mother of the "harlot" Protestant churches (Revelation 17:5), and the Jews are referred to as the "harlot" in Revelation 17:16, another harlot daughter of Babylon.

Your "Christian" church, built on the teachings of Peter and Paul, the two horns like a lamb, was instituted by the Roman Emperor Constantine, the beast with two horns like a lamb (Revelation 13:11), in the year 325 AD. Your "leader", and "teacher", Paul claimed to be both a "Roman", a Gentile, and a Jew.

Feel free to point out any "errors" I have presented. As for your "out of context", the Law and the prophets point to the "in that day", the day of the LORD, and what was will be again.(Ecclesiastes 1:9) And Matthew 27:9-10 specifically quotes from the prophet Zechariah 11:12-13 in respect to the shepherd Judas Iscariot. You might want to consider reading more from the Law and the prophets and less from "review articles".

Paul, before his conversion was a Jew, a Pharisee and a citizen of Rome.. He was NOT a Gentile. …. FACT.

Israel is the Whore of Babylon (harlot) because she went a whoring after other gods.. The Bible says so over, and over and over again.. FACT

"Futurism" was the work of a Jesuit Priest named Ribera in reaction to the teachings of Martin Luther that Rome was the Whore of Babylon and the Pope was the Anti-Christ (late 1500s)

 

[metis]

Your number 613 comes from the Pharisees and the scribes.

False, as the 613 are from Torah, and here they can be read that includes their corresponding verses: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

 

[metis]

Do you have a Bible verse that works, not trust, are salvific? A clear verse, since I have several hundred I'd be happy to present, starting with John 3:16, "Whoever TRUSTS shall NEVER PERISH"?

If one "TRUSTS" in their teacher, they will do what their teacher teaches, and that listing of items to do or not to do from Jesus is found in the Sermon. And this is where the "Goats" in Matthew 25 failed, namely that they believed in some things about Jesus but not enough in Jesus so as to do what Jesus taught.

 

[2ndpillar]

Paul, before his conversion was a Jew, a Pharisee and a citizen of Rome.. He was NOT a Gentile. …. FACT.

A citizen of Rome, is a citizen of the nations, and therefore a Gentile (of the nations). Being of the Herodian family, most likely related to Esau/Edom/Idumea . It is hard to say if Paul had a Benjamin maiden in his wood pile, other than his self witness, which according to John 5:31, would make it untrue.
https://taylormarshall.com/2015/08/was-saint-paul-related-to-herod-7-reasons-paul-was-herodian.html

New American Standard Bible 1 Cor 9:21
to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

 

[2ndpillar]

False, as the 613 are from Torah, and here they can be read that includes their corresponding verses: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

If you believe that, you had better start keeping them, for the law will go out from Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:3), and not from Paul's Rome, and his harlot daughter church of Babylon. On the other hand, there is no number "613" listed in the Torah, that would be listed by the scribes.

No one worships on God's mountain/Zion without keeping the covenant, and keeping the Sabbath (Isaiah 65:6-7). If you believe your 613 scribe list, go for it. Yeshua's message was to keep the Commandments to "enter into life". He listed the 10 commandments related to loving your neighbor.

Isaiah 2:3 Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 56: 6“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;

7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

 

[sooda]

A citizen of Rome, is a citizen of the nations, and therefore a Gentile (of the nations). Being of the Herodian family, most likely related to Esau/Edom/Idumea . It is hard to say if Paul had a Benjamin maiden in his wood pile, other than his self witness, which according to John 5:31, would make it untrue.
https://taylormarshall.com/2015/08/was-saint-paul-related-to-herod-7-reasons-paul-was-herodian.html

New American Standard Bible 1 Cor 9:21
to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Paul was a Jew from Turkey.

 

[2ndpillar]

Paul was a Jew from Turkey.

According to Paul, and apparently the unknown scribe of stories of unspecified sources, supposedly Luke, who supposedly wrote Acts, and who was supposedly an associate of Paul, he was from Taurus, a part of Rome. According to Paul, Paul was a Pharisee. Turkey, nor Islam, were established at that time. According to Paul, the law is nailed to the cross, and "we are released from the Law". According to Paul, we will not rest/die, but be changed from perishable to imperishable, yet Paul was changed from perishable to perished. According to Paul, his followers are "saved", according to Yeshua, not so much. The "many" follow Paul, but according to Yeshua, the "many" are headed to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13) & (Zechariah 11:9).

Zechariah 11:9 9and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

 

[sooda]

According to Paul, and apparently the unknown scribe of stories of unspecified sources, supposedly Luke, who supposedly wrote Acts, and who was an associate of Paul, he was from Taurus, a part of Rome. According to Paul, Paul was a Pharisee. Turkey, nor Islam, were established at that time. According to Paul, the law is nailed to the cross, and "we are released from the Law". According to Paul, we will not rest/die, but be changed from perishable to imperishable, yet Paul was changed from perishable to perished. According to Paul, his followers are "saved", according to Yeshua, not so much. The "many" follow Paul, but according to Yeshua, the "many" are headed to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13) & (Zechariah 11:9).

Zechariah 11:9 9and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

Tarsus was in Turkey.. You do know that there were lots of Jews living in Rome, Persia, Egypt, Damascus and Aleppo by the time Christ was born, don't you?

Paul died before the Destruction of the Temple and before the Christ followers avoided the tribulation by fleeing to Pella.

 

[2ndpillar]

Tarsus was in Turkey.. You do know that there were lots of Jews living in Rome, Persia, Egypt, Damascus and Aleppo by the time Christ was born, don't you?

The Seljuk Turks began migrating into the area in the 11th century, and their victory over the Byzantines at the Battle of Manzikert in 1071 symbolizes the start and foundation of Turkey
Turkey - Wikipedia

 

[2ndpillar]

Paul died before the Destruction of the Temple and before the Christ followers avoided the tribulation by fleeing to Pella.

Zechariah 11:9 has to do with the "flock doomed to slaughter" of Zechariah 11:7, which was with respect to 3 shepherds, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:8). The 3rd shepherd, Judas, was identified in Matthew 27:9-10, by the quoting of Zechariah 11:12-13 with respect to Judas. Those that are to "escape" are those on Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem (Joel 2:31-32), not those in Rome, and are not the followers of Paul, who was thrown out of Jerusalem, but would be Judah (Joel 3:1), per the "awesome day of the LORD", which day has not come, and which involves all the nations of the world (Revelation 16:13-16) & (Joel 3:2).

 

[sooda]

Zechariah 11:9 has to do with the "flock doomed to slaughter" of Zechariah 11:7, which was with respect to 3 shepherds, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:8). The 3rd shepherd, Judas, was identified in Matthew 27:9-10, by the quoting of Zechariah 11:12-13 with respect to Judas. Those that are to "escape" are those on Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem (Joel 2:31-32), not those in Rome, and are not the followers of Paul, who was thrown out of Jerusalem, but would be Judah (Joel 3:1), per the "awesome day of the LORD", which day has not come, and which involves all the nations of the world (Revelation 16:13-16) & (Joel 3:2).

Joel 3:1 is talking about the 686 BC event.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The age did end.. No more Temple Judaism and animal sacrifices. The power of Jewish law in Palestine was finished. That may not seem like a big deal to us, but it was a very big deal to them. In fact.. it helps to know some first century history and try to put yourself in that world.

They really did suffer a horrible tribulation of famine and sickness, war and death like they had never known before.. Except for Jesus's gang, they went to Pella and avoided the tribulation.

What does any of what you wrote have to do with the Bible heresy of saying "only the four gospels are valid in the NT"?

 

[BilliardsBall]

The "mother Roman Catholic church" (universal Christian church), is a "harlot" daughter of Babylon, and the mother of the "harlot" Protestant churches (Revelation 17:5), and the Jews are referred to as the "harlot" in Revelation 17:16, another harlot daughter of Babylon. Your "Christian" church, built on the teachings of Peter and Paul, the two horns like a lamb, was instituted by the Roman Emperor Constantine, the beast with two horns like a lamb (Revelation 13:11), in the year 325 AD. Your "leader", and "teacher", Paul claimed to be both a "Roman", a Gentile, and a Jew. Feel free to point out any "errors" I have presented. As for your "out of context", the Law and the prophets point to the "in that day", the day of the LORD, and what was will be again.(Ecclesiastes 1:9) And Matthew 27:9-10 specifically quotes from the prophet Zechariah 11:12-13 in respect to the shepherd Judas Iscariot. You might want to consider reading more from the Law and the prophets and less from "review articles".

Huh? What?

I'm a Jewish Christian--I'm not Roman Catholic, and not a Protestant, because I'm not protesting anything.

Rome has a lot of bad doctrine--almost all their doctrine is horrible, but the chief issue is the gospel IMHO. As I understand the gospel from the gospels themselves, simple trust in Christ IS salvation (John 3:16, John 1:12, etc.).

 

[BilliardsBall]

You make unverifiable claims, and yell ouch when called on it. And I certainly do not consider you a "brother". Your "brother" would be the false prophet Paul, or the "worthless shepherd", Peter (Zechariah 11:16-17), who will be dealt with in Matthew 13:39-42. As for "millions" of "saved people in America alone", you have still not defined what they are "saved" from. As for the reading the NT, well, as the NT is around 67% derived from the false prophet Paul and his associates, and is a mix of the tare seed, Paul's message of lawlessness, and the "good seed", the "word of the kingdom", I would think that the "many" (Matthew 7:13), who following the path of lawlessness (Matthew 7:23 & Matthew 13:41), are in for a rude awakening (Matthew 13:39-42). As for being graded on your homework, everyone is graded on what they say, for justification or condemnation. As for you and your "saved" "brothers", they deem the "unsaved" to hell, a judgment which will bite them on the tail. (Matthew 7:2)

As for John 3:16, it would be addressing those who believe in him, the him being the "Word" made flesh, that would be those who believe in the Word, not those who nail the Word to the cross.

I'm making an unverifiable claim that trusting Jesus is salvation?

 

[BilliardsBall]

If one "TRUSTS" in their teacher, they will do what their teacher teaches, and that listing of items to do or not to do from Jesus is found in the Sermon. And this is where the "Goats" in Matthew 25 failed, namely that they believed in some things about Jesus but not enough in Jesus so as to do what Jesus taught.

That makes sense! However, Jesus was teaching in the case of the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere that no one fully does all of His teachings except Him--making Him the cross candidate.

Jesus taught one must be perfect, not good, to get to Heaven, Jesus died for our sin IMHO, not in spite of our sin, etc.

John 3 says, "Whoever trusts Jesus IS saved," and not the Roman "Whoever proves they trust Jesus by doing things [even though an omniscient God would know who trusts Him despite their sometimes failed actions]!"

John 1 goes further, "Whoever trusted in HIS NAME, to THEM He gave the right to be called children of God."

Our understanding of salvation colors all our doctrine and life. Based on what you're saying, anyone can be saved based on works, but biblically, anyone can be saved based on trusting God. How do you account for Romans 4 in your understanding, the beginning of Romans 4?

Thanks.

 

[sooda]

The Seljuk Turks began migrating into the area in the 11th century, and their victory over the Byzantines at the Battle of Manzikert in 1071 symbolizes the start and foundation of Turkey
Turkey - Wikipedia

Oh Mercy.. Tarsus was in Anatolia.. Before the birth of Christ there were Jewish communities in Alexandria, Aleppo, Damascus, Persia, Anatolia, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Mediterranean. Palestine could NOT support a large population.

There were Jews who were Roman citizens... That didn't make them Gentiles.

 

[sooda]

What does any of what you wrote have to do with the Bible heresy of saying "only the four gospels are valid in the NT"?

Take it up with whomever said it. I didn't.

 

[metis]

If you believe that, you had better start keeping them, for the law will go out from Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:3), and not from Paul's Rome, and his harlot daughter church of Babylon. On the other hand, there is no number "613" listed in the Torah, that would be listed by the scribes.

No one worships on God's mountain/Zion without keeping the covenant, and keeping the Sabbath (Isaiah 65:6-7). If you believe your 613 scribe list, go for it. Yeshua's message was to keep the Commandments to "enter into life". He listed the 10 commandments related to loving your neighbor.

Isaiah 2:3 Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 56: 6“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;

7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Since you refuse to even attempt to answer my question, why should I respond to anything you post?

 

[metis]

Based on what you're saying, anyone can be saved based on works,...

I did not say that nor imply that. It's based on belief and doing God's "works".

 

[2ndpillar]

Oh Mercy.. Tarsus was in Anatolia.. Before the birth of Christ there were Jewish communities in Alexandria, Aleppo, Damascus, Persia, Anatolia, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Mediterranean. Palestine could NOT support a large population.

There were Jews who were Roman citizens... That didn't make them Gentiles.

There were many people living under Roman rule, but few, such as supposedly Paul, because he was supposedly Herodian, and was a citizen by way of the Idumea Herod, a fake Jew, not of the tribe of Judah, nor Benjamin, being an appointed ruler of a Roman province. The term Jew, refers to the "house of Judah". There is no pathway to being of the "house of Judah" in the Torah, except to being a descendant of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. As for strangers living among the Jews, there is one law for the foreigner and the Jew (Leviticus 24:22). That does not make the "foreigner" a Jew. To be in the covenant with Abraham, the father of nations/Gentiles, one must be circumcised. That does not make one a Jew, for all of Abraham's household, including servants, were circumcised, and all did not go on to produce Judah/Jews. Paul wasn't Jewish in deed, and apparently not in heritage. Apparently, he had become Gentile in deed. His probable heritage, being Herodian, of Idumea/Edom, was one of being of the nations, a Gentile.

Leviticus 24:22 22You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'"