If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

[2ndpillar]

That makes sense! However, Jesus was teaching in the case of the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere that no one fully does all of His teachings except Him--making Him the cross candidate.

Jesus taught one must be perfect, not good, to get to Heaven, Jesus died for our sin IMHO, not in spite of our sin, etc.

You appear to making things up. Yeshua didn't say no one could be "perfect"/"complete". He said if you want to be "perfect" sell all our goods, and give the money to the poor, and follow me (Matthew 19:21). As for entering into "the kingdom of heaven" which is "at hand", one must simply be more righteous than the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20). And the "kingdom of heaven at hand" is at hand (Matthew 6:32-34).

Matthew 5:20 "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[2ndpillar]

I'm making an unverifiable claim that trusting Jesus is salvation?

Your "unverified claim" was that there were 200 quotes claiming salvation by faith alone, and then giving the twisting interpretation of one quote by Yeshua. Your homework was to give the other 199 quotes given by Yeshua. There are many quotes by Yeshua, but they seemed to be centered around the production of "good fruit" versus "bad fruit", or righteous versus wicked/lawless. As for "faith", Yeshua's quote was that if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to a mountain, go into the sea, and it would do so. Do you have faith the size of a mustard seed? You seem to mix the quotes of the false prophet Paul with those of Yeshua. Two different sources, both antithetical to the other.

 

[sooda]

There were many people living under Roman rule, but few, such as supposedly Paul, because he was supposedly Herodian, and was a citizen by way of the Idumea Herod, a fake Jew, not of the tribe of Judah, nor Benjamin, being an appointed ruler of a Roman province. The term Jew, refers to the "house of Judah". There is no pathway to being of the "house of Judah" in the Torah, except to being a descendant of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. As for strangers living among the Jews, there is one law for the foreigner and the Jew (Leviticus 24:22). That does not make the "foreigner" a Jew. To be in the covenant with Abraham, the father of nations/Gentiles, one must be circumcised. That does not make one a Jew, for all of Abraham's household, including servants, were circumcised, and all did not go on to produce Judah/Jews. Paul wasn't Jewish in deed, and apparently not in heritage. Apparently, he had become Gentile in deed. His probable heritage, being Herodian, of Idumea/Edom, was one of being of the nations, a Gentile.

Leviticus 24:22 22You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'"

"Saint Paul" was a Lifelong Jew

The man known as "St. Paul" was first called Saul (pronounced Sha'ul in Hebrew), and that is the name used in this article. He was called Saul in Acts 7:58, Acts 8:1, and Acts 9:1. His first encounter with Yeshua ("Jesus") was in Acts 9:3-6, where the Lord addressed him as Saul. This episode is also told in Acts 22:7 and Acts 26:14, and in both of those the Lord also addressed him as Saul. When speaking about him to Ananias in a vision, the Lord said he was called "Saul of Tarsus" (Acts 9:11). It was not until Acts 13:9 that he was referred to as "Saul who was also known as Paul." To this day, it is not unusual for Jews in the diaspora to have two names. One is used by family or other Jews, the second is how they are known by the larger society around them. Unlike the case of Jacob who became Israel, Saul's name was never changed by God.




.
In 2Cor 11:22 Saul wrote that he was descended from Abraham and Israel... SO Saul/Paul thought he was a Jew.

Just because a Jew lived in the Diaspora he didn't suddenly become a Gentile. Who taught you that?

 

[2ndpillar]

"Saint Paul" was a Lifelong Jew

The man known as "St. Paul" was first called Saul (pronounced Sha'ul in Hebrew), and that is the name used in this article. He was called Saul in Acts 7:58, Acts 8:1, and Acts 9:1. His first encounter with Yeshua ("Jesus") was in Acts 9:3-6, where the Lord addressed him as Saul. This episode is also told in Acts 22:7 and Acts 26:14, and in both of those the Lord also addressed him as Saul. When speaking about him to Ananias in a vision, the Lord said he was called "Saul of Tarsus" (Acts 9:11). It was not until Acts 13:9 that he was referred to as "Saul who was also known as Paul." To this day, it is not unusual for Jews in the diaspora to have two names. One is used by family or other Jews, the second is how they are known by the larger society around them. Unlike the case of Jacob who became Israel, Saul's name was never changed by God.

In 2Cor 11:22 Saul wrote that he was descended from Abraham and Israel... SO Saul/Paul thought he was a Jew.

Just because a Jew lived in the Diaspora he didn't suddenly become a Gentile. Who taught you that?

Acts was supposedly written by the unknown author of Luke, who simply wrote down what he was told (Luke 1:1-3). Being as the supposed Luke was a supposed associate of Paul, who better to tell him what to write but Paul himself. As for Paul witnessing an angel of light in the wilderness, Paul wrote that Satan often comes as an angel of light, as for Yeshua, he said if any one says he is in the wilderness, do not believe them.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I did not say that nor imply that. It's based on belief and doing God's "works".

But you realize there are hundreds of verses that say it's trust/belief only, and other verses that say "Zero Works", like the beginning of Romans 4, as mentioned:

These things are hidden from the wise and intelligent and revealed to infants (pride vs. humility).

 

[BilliardsBall]

You appear to making things up. Yeshua didn't say no one could be "perfect"/"complete". He said if you want to be "perfect" sell all our goods, and give the money to the poor, and follow me (Matthew 19:21). As for entering into "the kingdom of heaven" which is "at hand", one must simply be more righteous than the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20). And the "kingdom of heaven at hand" is at hand (Matthew 6:32-34).

Matthew 5:20 "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1) Have you sold all your goods, then, to give the money to the poor? What goods do you own today?

2) These things are hidden from the wise and intelligent and revealed to infants (pride vs. humility).

 

[BilliardsBall]

Your "unverified claim" was that there were 200 quotes claiming salvation by faith alone, and then giving the twisting interpretation of one quote by Yeshua. Your homework was to give the other 199 quotes given by Yeshua. There are many quotes by Yeshua, but they seemed to be centered around the production of "good fruit" versus "bad fruit", or righteous versus wicked/lawless. As for "faith", Yeshua's quote was that if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to a mountain, go into the sea, and it would do so. Do you have faith the size of a mustard seed? You seem to mix the quotes of the false prophet Paul with those of Yeshua. Two different sources, both antithetical to the other.

There are over 90 variations of "trust for salvation only" in John's gospel alone. Start there, please, since you do adhere to John's gospel, yes?

Also, I didn't "twist" John 3:16, I quoted it, the Word that does not return void, "Trust me [Jesus] and NEVER perish."

 

[metis]

But you realize there are hundreds of verses that say it's trust/belief only, and other verses that say "Zero Works", like the beginning of Romans 4, as mentioned:

Those are identified as being "works under the Law". [Jewish Law-- halacha).

 

[2ndpillar]

There are over 90 variations of "trust for salvation only" in John's gospel alone. Start there, please, since you do adhere to John's gospel, yes?

Also, I didn't "twist" John 3:16, I quoted it, the Word that does not return void, "Trust me [Jesus] and NEVER perish."

John 3:36 clarifies John 3:16 & John 3:19. Are you as Paul, foremost of sinners (Romans 7:20)? Or midrange (1 John 3:6)? As for your interpretation of John 3:6, remember that your leader and teacher, Paul, died and was supposedly buried. And while his demon spirit, apparently will not die (Revelation 20:10), he might wish that it did. As for the "Word" that does not return void (Isaiah 55:6), you have apparently nailed it to a cross.

New American Standard Bible John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

New American Standard Bible John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

New American Standard Bible 1 John 3:6
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

1) Have you sold all your goods, then, to give the money to the poor? What goods do you own today?

2) These things are hidden from the wise and intelligent and revealed to infants (pride vs. humility).

 

[sooda]

Acts was supposedly written by the unknown author of Luke, who simply wrote down what he was told (Luke 1:1-3). Being as the supposed Luke was a supposed associate of Paul, who better to tell him what to write but Paul himself. As for Paul witnessing an angel of light in the wilderness, Paul wrote that Satan often comes as an angel of light, as for Yeshua, he said if any one says he is in the wilderness, do not believe them.

What does any of the have to do with your claim that Saul/Paul was a Gentile because he was a Roman citizen?

 

[sooda]

John 3:36 clarifies John 3:16 & John 3:19. Are you as Paul, foremost of sinners (Romans 7:20)? Or midrange (1 John 3:6)? As for your interpretation of John 3:6, remember that your leader and teacher, Paul, died and was supposedly buried. And while his demon spirit, apparently will not die (Revelation 20:10), he might wish that it did. As for the "Word" that does not return void (Isaiah 55:6), you have apparently nailed it to a cross.

New American Standard Bible John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

New American Standard Bible John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

New American Standard Bible 1 John 3:6
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Revelation 20:10 is not about Paul. Its about Satan. Paul was already long dead before John of Patmos wrote Revelation.

The false prophet is probably BarJesus "A certain sorcerer (Greek magos), a false prophet, a Jew" whom Paul and Silas found at Paphos in Cyprus"

 

[2ndpillar]

1) Have you sold all your goods, then, to give the money to the poor? What goods do you own today?

2) These things are hidden from the wise and intelligent and revealed to infants (pride vs. humility).

Although I like infants, they are rarely described as humble. As with giving tithes correctly, or selling all you own and giving to the poor, and following me, the floodgates of blessing follow both (Malahi 3:8). So one becomes "perfect"/"Compete" and clothed and fed as well (Matthew 6:33). You should try it. As it stands, the Word of God, that "which cannot be broken" (John 10:35), Jeremiah 31:30, states that "everyone will die for their own iniquity". And while "Christians" think they will be "gathered up" "first", per their rapture/twinkling theory, in fact, the tares will be gathered up "first" (Matthew 13:30).

Malachi 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “In tithes and offerings.
9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me.
10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

New American Standard Bible Matthew 6:33
"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

 

[2ndpillar]

Revelation 20:10 is not about Paul. Its about Satan. Paul was already long dead before John of Patmos wrote Revelation.

The false prophet is probably BarJesus "A certain sorcerer (Greek magos), a false prophet, a Jew" whom Paul and Silas found at Paphos in Cyprus"

The "beast" who "was and is not" (Revelation 17:11) is alive as a "demon spirit" (Revelation 16:13-16), as the 8th head of the beast. His pal, the "demon spirit" of the "false prophet" is along side of him (Revelation 16:13). Both died, yet their "unclean" spirits live on. And Revelation 20:10, is about the "devil"/Satan, being thrown in with the "false prophet" and the "beast" who were in the lake of fire since the beginning of the millennium, when they were thrown in. The millennium, when the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13-15) rules the nations, has not started as of yet. We are at "the end of the age", whereas the tares are now going to be "gathered out", and that would include your false prophet Paul, along with his tare seed.

 

[sooda]

The "beast" who "was and is not" (Revelation 17:11) is alive as a "demon spirit" (Revelation 16:13-16), as the 8th head of the beast. His pal, the "demon spirit" of the "false prophet" is along side of him (Revelation 16:13). Both died, yet their "unclean" spirits live on. And Revelation 20:10, is about the "devil"/Satan, being thrown in with the "false prophet" and the "beast" who were in the lake of fire since the beginning of the millennium, when they were thrown in. The millennium, when the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13-15) rules the nations, has not started as of yet. We are at "the end of the age", whereas the tares are now going to be "gathered out", and that would include your false prophet Paul, along with his tare seed.

The beast who was and is not is Nero. Until the 5th century people were afraid Nero would return from the dead.. or someone like him who would persecute the Jews. Domitian came along and did restart the persecutions.

Why are you trying to make it all about the future? That was a Jesuit plot that was later promoted by American Zionist Samuel Untermyer.

Does JW teach that fake theology? It came out about 1850.

The false prophet was probably BarJesus.. Paul had been dead since 68 AD.

 

[2ndpillar]

What does any of the have to do with your claim that Saul/Paul was a Gentile because he was a Roman citizen?

Paul, was apparently a kin of the Herodian family (Romans 16;11), which makes him a descendant of Idumea/Edom, a Gentile, and not a real Jew according to the Torah, bar the writings of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8), which make the law into a lie. Rome is a kingdom of the nations, and therefore a Gentile nation. Paul rejected the Jews, and made his own kingdom, one without the law, and it was a kingdom of Gentiles, with the Romans providing Roman legions to guard Paul while in Jerusalem.

https://taylormarshall.com/2015/08/was-saint-paul-related-to-herod-7-reasons-paul-was-herodian.html

 

[sooda]

Your "unverified claim" was that there were 200 quotes claiming salvation by faith alone, and then giving the twisting interpretation of one quote by Yeshua. Your homework was to give the other 199 quotes given by Yeshua. There are many quotes by Yeshua, but they seemed to be centered around the production of "good fruit" versus "bad fruit", or righteous versus wicked/lawless. As for "faith", Yeshua's quote was that if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to a mountain, go into the sea, and it would do so. Do you have faith the size of a mustard seed? You seem to mix the quotes of the false prophet Paul with those of Yeshua. Two different sources, both antithetical to the other.

I never said anything about 200 quotes. You're confused.

Paul was from Tarsus in Anatolia (Turkey) NOT Edom.. But, the Edomites who converted were REAL Jews.


Good figs, bad figs.. The good figs went to Babylon.. The bad figs stayed in Jerusalem.

Poor, ignorant and hardhearted the bad figs really got left behind.

 

[2ndpillar]

The beast who was and is not is Nero. Until the 5th century people were afraid Nero would return from the dead.. or someone like him who would persecute the Jews. Domitian came along and did restart the persecutions.

I think Titus, brother of Domitian, and son of Vespasian, was the one responsible for the destruction of Jerusalem. I think your Catholic like focus on Nero, is a little misplaced. Nero didn't rule for 42 months as the beast of Revelation 13:3, and neither he nor Domitian deceived "those who dwell on the earth" and give them the mark of the beast. "If the glove does not fit, one must acquit".

 

[2ndpillar]

I never said anything about 200 quotes. You're confused.

Paul was from Tarsus in Anatolia (Turkey) NOT Edom.. But, the Edomites who converted were REAL Jews.

You seem confused. Billiard Ball had 200 quotes. Where in the Torah can Edom, the one God hated (Malachi 1:3), convert to Judaism? You are mixing up the proclamations of the false prophet Mohammad on converting by use of the sword with the Torah. Where can anyone become of the "house of Judah" except in the Talmud, the writing of the scribes?

 

[sooda]

Speaks of the whore which sits on seven hills in Revelation.
I am sure the Catholics, if they wanted to edit the bible, would
have removed that verse.

Jerusalem sits on seven hills.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City - Biblical Archaeology Society

 

[sooda]

I think Titus, brother of Domitian, and son of Vespasian, was the one responsible for the destruction of Jerusalem. I think your Catholic like focus on Nero, is a little misplaced. Nero didn't rule for 42 months as the beast of Revelation 13:3, and neither he nor Domitian deceived "those who dwell on the earth" and give them the mark of the beast. "If the glove does not fit, one must acquit".

Correct. Vespasian was recalled to Rome to become Emperor. Titus was in charge in Jerusalem.

The Gentiles trampled Jerusalem for 42 months... but the Romans weren't there for 42 months because of a political crisis in Rome so its probably the zealots who were running amok ..

There were multiple nations that trampled Jerusalem from the fall of 66 AD until the spring of 70 AD when the Romans were not in the city. Wikipedia gives this summary of those who fought the hardest against the Romans:

“During the Great Rebellion (66-70 CE) the Galileans and Idumeans were the most adamant fighters against Rome; they fought the Romans to the death when many Judeans were ready to accept peace terms.”


The three main Zealot leaders (Eleazar ben Simon, John Levi, and Simon Bar Giora) who orchestrated so much bloodshed in Jerusalem were not from Judea. John was from Gischala (Galilee) and Simon was from Gerasa (Wars 4.9.3), which at the time was one of the cities of the Roman Decapolis and today is in Jordan. By the time that Simon “got possession of Jerusalem” in April 69 AD (Wars 4.9.12), he had an army of more than 40,000 people, including Idumeans, who he had gathered from the countryside.