If the world is predominantly religious, why is it such a mess?

[Spiderman]

On every dollar and coin we have written "in God we trust".

America was originally founded on Judeo Christian principles and I will back up an argument for why I say this at another time, most likely today.

 

[Deidre]

Relating to China, that is the Communist Party who is predominantly atheist, but they allow for the freedom of religion in China, so there are a variety of religions being practiced, ranging from Buddhism to Islam to Catholicism.

If you're looking at the governing bodies of these countries, that might be different than the actual population of its citizens. The way these countries govern is vastly different from America. Do you honestly think that if our government was made up of predominantly atheists, America would be governing the way these other countries are?

It is democracy that brings freedom ...not religion.

 

[dawny0826]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

Because the world is filled with people, all capable of as much love, honesty, charity and kindness as they are all the ugly stuff.

I don't attribute the world's ugliest problems on religion. I attribute it to people who make horrible choices.

For those who take religion to a dark place through actions, there are those who take their religion and counter atrocity.

 

[Deidre]

On every dollar and coin we have written "in God we trust".

America was originally founded on Judeo Christian principles and I will back up an argument for why I say this at another time, most likely today.

No you're right...that is why slavery was supported for as long as it was, and why women and homosexuals were treated like second class citizens for years, as well. Yea...those ''principles'' are what founded America.

You can't cherry pick only the good parts of American history because you don't like the bad parts. Christian men founded this country, after all. I guess freedom to them only meant who they thought deserved it. And it just so happens that those same groups of people...the Bible supported too. It always amazes me that man seems to know exactly what God wants...and man seems to hate and ostracize exactly who God hates and ostracizes.

Hmmm....

 

[Spiderman]

Most of our politicians including Presidents are Theists and usually they are some Christian Faith.

I don't know what it would be like if they were mainly Atheist. The Democracies that have read about that had little to no Christian influence were very corrupt. I'll have to do some research to find out more.

 

[Spiderman]

No you're right...that is why slavery was supported for as long as it was, and why women and homosexuals were treated like second class citizens for years, as well. Yea...those ''principles'' are what founded America.

You can't cherry pick only the good parts of American history because you don't like the bad parts. Christian men founded this country, after all. I guess freedom to them only meant who they thought deserved it. And it just so happens that those same groups of people...the Bible supported too. It always amazes me that man seems to know exactly what God wants...and man seems to hate and ostracize exactly who God hates and ostracizes.

Hmmm....

Yes...and in the non Christian parts of the world we have slavery and in the 20th Century we have seen slavery at it's worst in the non christian areas of the world.

Thank you, i will give a more thorough explanation and list sources as to why I say this for I'll start a thread on that very topic.

To say that "Judeo Christian principles" are the cause of slavery in this country is a fairly easily statement to discredit because it was Christian groups that were the strongest in favor of abolishing slavery, but more importantly, slavery was most prominent in non Christian countries, and after slavery ended in America and other first world countries, it continued most in Non Christian Countries.

So, it is an argument that holds little water to blame "Judeo Christian principles" for being the cause of slavery in America.

 

[Deidre]

Because the world is filled with people, all capable of as much love, honesty, charity and kindness as they are all the ugly stuff.

I don't attribute the world's ugliest problems on religion. I attribute it to people who make horrible choices.

For those who take religion to a dark place through actions, there are those who take their religion and counter atrocity.

I don't disagree, but I guess I don't see the overall impact of religion on people, being enough of a positive one. If we all will just go our own way anyway, why follow religion at all? If a good person will make a good decision whether or not he/she follows religion, and a not so good person will follow his/her path regardless of religion...what is religion really doing for anyone? I will say that it brought me a lot of comfort and such when I followed Christianity, but at the end of the day, I still knew right from wrong, and the desire to help others wasn't because I followed a faith. That is more of my overall point...how much of a differentiator is religion on overall human behavior?

That would have made a better thread title. lol Thank you for your reply, dawny...it is a very good point

 

[Deidre]

Yes...and in the non Christian parts of the world we have slavery and in the 20th Century we have seen slavery at it's worst in the non christian areas of the world.

Thank you, i will give a more thorough explanation and list sources as to why I say this for I'll start a thread on that very topic.

To say that "Judeo Christian principles" are the cause of slavery in this country is a fairly easily statement to discredit because it was Christian groups that were the strongest in favor of abolishing slavery, but more importantly, slavery was most prominent in non Christian countries, and after slavery ended in America and other first world countries, it continued most in Non Christian Countries.

So, it is an argument that holds little water to blame "Judeo Christian principles" for being the cause of slavery in America.

Thank you, look forward to the info.
There are good and bad in all groups, I mean...we know this.
I posted a reply to dawny, that sort of fleshes out more my mindset when creating this thread.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

That is more of my overall point...how much of a differentiator is religion on overall human behavior?

I suspect that if you did a list of positive and negative influences of religion over human history it would show an overall negative influence. Think for example of all the wars fought over religion, and the excesses of fundamentalists. Consider the fact that religion hasn't prevented world wars and genocides.

I regard religion more as a human need than a force for good.

 

[Deidre]

I suspect that if you did a list of positive and negative influences of religion over human history it would show an overall negative influence. I regard religion more as a human need than a force for good.

So much this.

*applause*

/end thread

 

[Spiderman]

I suspect that if you did a list of positive and negative influences of religion over human history it would show an overall negative influence. Think for example of all the wars fought over religion, and the excesses of fundamentalists. Consider the fact that religion hasn't prevented world wars and genocides.

I regard religion more as a human need than a force for good.

Depends on the Religion and if the people follow their founder.

If people obeyed the teachings of Christ the sick would be cared for, the hungry fed, no one would return violence for violence, the homeless would have a roof over their head, the wealth would be shared, and everyone would love others as they love themselves and treat others as they want to be treated.

So, Religion has negative influence because people are not obedient to it. At least the Religions that meet the definition of Christian.

EDIT*** Also, Buddhism is another Religion that if it's followers obeyed the founder of the Religion, there would be poverty of Spirit, humility, purity of heart, charity, less anger, no covetousness, no jealousy, no gluttony, and no violence.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So, Religion has negative influence because people are not obedient to it.

It's true that people often lose sight of the core spiritual teachings, it seems to inevitably occur when religion become organised, large scale and hierarchies develops.

But then imagine what the last 2000 years would have been like without all the trouble caused the Abrahamic religions - much more peaceful I suspect.
The Crusades and the Inquisition are two obvious examples but I'm sure there are lots of others.

 

[Spiderman]

It's true that people often lose sight of the core spiritual teachings, it seems to inevitably occur when religion become organised and hierarchies develops.

Yes that, Or when the founder of the Religion is a mass murderer. As is the case in one of the most prominent and fastest growing World Religions.

 

[Deidre]

It's true that people often lose sight of the core spiritual teachings, it seems to inevitably occur when religion become organised and hierarchies develops.

But ...do we really need religion to teach us to be good to one another? lol I mean, seriously?
All we ever needed to learn, we learned in kindergarten. Treat others as you wish to be treated.

I don't need to believe that a fiery mass in a burning bush known as 'god' brought forth basic common sense tenets of how to live our lives in ways that benefit one another. Simply put, religion takes all of the things that are basically common sense ways of behaving towards mankind, and spins it as it came from a deity. I don't need fear of where I might end up in an afterlife, to get me to treat others kindly.

And ironically, all of the dark points of religion (oppression, bigotry, division) also were derivatives of mankind, spun to look like a deity ordered them.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Or when the founder of the Religion is a mass murderer.

See my edit to post #112

 

[Robert.Evans]

It's true that people often lose sight of the core spiritual teachings, it seems to inevitably occur when religion become organised, large scale and hierarchies develops.

But then imagine what the last 2000 years would have been like without all the trouble caused the Abrahamic religions - much more peaceful I suspect.
The Crusades and the Inquisition are two obvious examples but I'm sure there are lots of others.

I was looking for a place to post this, and you will do

We must recall, as someone once said on a forum some years ago now, God's word is right, but man has a great way of messing it up.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But ...do we really need religion to teach us to be good to one another?

No, of course we don't. It's a fiction created by theists.

 

[Robert.Evans]

But ...do we really need religion to teach us to be good to one another? lol I mean, seriously?

It is an expression of the divine just as secularism is. Can't have one without the other.

 

[Robert.Evans]

No, of course we don't. It's a fiction created by theists.

Ohhhh please

 

[Deidre]

Yes that, Or when the founder of the Religion is a mass murderer. As is the case in one of the most prominent and fastest growing World Religions.

Yes...that's why the majority of Muslims are NOT violent, eh?
Sigh.