If the world is predominantly religious, why is it such a mess?

[Rick O'Shez]

And ironically, all of the dark points of religion (oppression, bigotry, division) also were derivatives of mankind, spun to look like a deity ordered them.

Yes, men find it much easier to kill in God's name. Though to be fair it sometimes seems like any excuse will do.

 

[Deidre]

It is an expression of the divine just as secularism is. Can't have one without the other.

haha Secularism isn't an expression of the divine.

 

[dawny0826]

I don't disagree, but I guess I don't see the overall impact of religion on people, being enough of a positive one. If we all will just go our own way anyway, why follow religion at all? If a good person will make a good decision whether or not he/she follows religion, and a not so good person will follow his/her path regardless of religion...what is religion really doing for anyone? I will say that it brought me a lot of comfort and such when I followed Christianity, but at the end of the day, I still knew right from wrong, and the desire to help others wasn't because I followed a faith. That is more of my overall point...how much of a differentiator is religion on overall human behavior?

That would have made a better thread title. lol Thank you for your reply, dawny...it is a very good point

The "way" that I choose to follow is greatly influenced by my faith. My faith and spirituality is innate to my character.

In many ways, I'm a better person, more in tune to human suffering because of my spirituality. If I didn't have that, I would be so much more selfish and that's truth, knowing my own personality and character. My faith and beliefs force me to remain focused on keeping those flaws in check

I'm only speaking for myself, of course.

 

[Spiderman]

But ...do we really need religion to teach us to be good to one another? lol I mean, seriously?
All we ever needed to learn, we learned in kindergarten. Treat others as you wish to be treated.

I don't need to believe that a fiery mass in a burning bush known as 'god' brought forth basic common sense tenets of how to live our lives in ways that benefit one another. Simply put, religion takes all of the things that are basically common sense ways of behaving towards mankind, and spins it as it came from a deity. I don't need fear of where I might end up in an afterlife, to get me to treat others kindly.

And ironically, all of the dark points of religion (oppression, bigotry, division) also were derivatives of mankind, spun to look like a deity ordered them.

Perhaps not, but it just so happen

Yes...that's why the majority of Muslims are NOT violent, eh?
Sigh.

The muslims that are not violent are the ones who do not live like the founder of their religion. Obviously!

That was my point!
*sigh*

 

[Robert.Evans]

haha Secularism isn't an expression of the divine.

Tis too so there

 

[Robert.Evans]

The "way" that I choose to follow is greatly influenced by my faith. My faith and spirituality is innate to my character.

Religion and our perceptions and understandings thereof can influence our choices for better or worse. In many ways, I'm a better person, more in tune to human suffering because of my spirituality. If I didn't have that, I would be so much more selfish and that's truth, knowing my own personality and character. My faith and beliefs force me to remain focused on keeping those flaws in check.

Like being a feminist for example..haha

 

[dawny0826]

Like being a feminist for example..haha

Funny!

 

[Deidre]

The "way" that I choose to follow is greatly influenced by my faith. My faith and spirituality is innate to my character.

Religion and our perceptions and understandings thereof can influence our choices for better or worse. In many ways, I'm a better person, more in tune to human suffering because of my spirituality. If I didn't have that, I would be so much more selfish and that's truth, knowing my own personality and character. My faith and beliefs force me to remain focused on keeping those flaws in check.

This is something I've been longing to read in this thread. I think that for many, this is true. But for many, it isn't. If more thought like you, the world would be a better place -- whether religion focused or not.

Tis too so there

Perhaps not, but it just so happen

The muslims that are not violent are the ones who do not live like the founder of their religion. Obviously!

*sigh*

I encourage you to read this, you'll like it. And you may come away with a different view.
Following Muhammad: Rethinking Islam in the Contemporary World (Islamic Civilization and Muslim Networks) Carl W. Ernst

 

[Brickjectivity]

Because there are several million religions throughout the world, and none of them actually agree on anything. Within Christianity itself there are 30,000 denominations alone.

Instead of taking time out of their day to help others, most people are too busy fighting amongst themselves.

Also, the negative things that you mention, are not something that will ever be eradicated, even if there was only one singular religion on the planet. This is because they are the exasperated versions of natural human qualities. The more people we have, the bigger these problems will seem, because the more that will succumb to them.

Right on!

(Replying to The Hammer's post on page 1.)

 

[Debateable]

You mean people are divided, I should think..



I don't agree with that, AT ALL!
Whatever religion people claim to 'belong to' or follow, does not change their political situation .. it is politics and the love of wealth, and not religion which is responsible for mankind's violent behaviour..

You sir have obviously not been paying attention at all then.

 

[Debateable]

Predominately Atheist countries:

Soviet Union

China

Cambodia

Vietnam

North Korea

Cuba

and more

Mass killings under Communist regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, ancient Rome was a Democracy and it was extremely corrupt. Democracy doesn't guarantee justice.

Pretty much all of these countries ARE religious. Just because they don't follow a religion of a book like Christianity, Judaism or Islam doesn't mean they are atheist at all. The government that runs those countries is structured like a religion in that the leader of each of those countries are considered to actually be god or the son of god. Not atheist at all.

 

[Debateable]

On every dollar and coin we have written "in God we trust".

America was originally founded on Judeo Christian principles and I will back up an argument for why I say this at another time, most likely today.

No dollar or coin in the US said "In God We Trust" until about the mid 1950's.

 

[Debateable]

Depends on the Religion and if the people follow their founder.

If people obeyed the teachings of Christ the sick would be cared for, the hungry fed, no one would return violence for violence, the homeless would have a roof over their head, the wealth would be shared, and everyone would love others as they love themselves and treat others as they want to be treated.

So, Religion has negative influence because people are not obedient to it. At least the Religions that meet the definition of Christian.

EDIT*** Also, Buddhism is another Religion that if it's followers obeyed the founder of the Religion, there would be poverty of Spirit, humility, purity of heart, charity, less anger, no covetousness, no jealousy, no gluttony, and no violence.

And there would be a lot more rape because it is encouraged in the bible.

 

[Spiderman]

And there would be a lot more rape because it is encouraged in the bible.

That is silly!

If all people followed and obeyed the teachings of Christ there would be no rape.

To say otherwise is ignorant and asinine

 

[Deidre]

What's important to note, is that a lot of people who follow the Bible, start their own wars. There was a 'war' on homosexuals in America for the longest time, in fact, it's still going on depending on who you talk to. There were laws preventing the legal marriage of homosexuals, and that comes directly from the Bible. 'Marriage should be between one man and one woman.' This became a political chess piece not too long ago.

That's just one 'war' I'm naming, but there are others, whereby American Christians have taken the Bible to oppress groups of people. So, not everything will be an apple to apple comparison, but Christianity isn't this meek little lamb that some would like to make it out to be. And if you say that those folks aren't 'true Christians,' I'd have to disagree...they are following the Bible because the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin.

So, sometimes we see what we wanna see.

Matthew 7:5
Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.

For the record, I'm not inferring anyone here is a hypocrite. lol

 

[jeager106]

Deidre;
You seem to write a great deal about the shortcomings of the Christian religion while almost never mentioning far worse conditions within other Abrahamic faiths.
You mention often about how homosexuals are/were presecuted in the U.S. by Chrisitans yet never mention outright atrocities still being committed by islam against homosexuals. The very recent killing of 2 homosexual men in Mosul that were tossed hundreds of feet off a roof to thier deaths.
Homosexuals are regulary stoned to death, beaten to death, hanged, tortured then killed and thrown off tall buildings by Sharia court officials yet you never mention such horrifc crimes.
You write "American Christians have taken the Bible to oppress groups of people" but ignore ( at least here ) the murder of groups by muslims.
You berate American Christians at almost any opportunity.
"So, sometimes we see what we wanna see."
Matthew 7:5
Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.
Not at all suggesting anyone here is such.

 

[Spiderman]

Deidre;
You seem to write a great deal about the shortcomings of the Christian religion while almost never mentioning far worse conditions within other Abrahamic faiths.
You mention often about how homosexuals are/were presecuted in the U.S. by Chrisitans yet never mention outright atrocities still being committed by islam against homosexuals. The very recent killing of 2 homosexual men in Mosul that were tossed hundreds of feet off a roof to thier deaths.
Homosexuals are regulary stoned to death, beaten to death, hanged, tortured then killed and thrown off tall buildings by Sharia court officials yet you never mention such horrifc crimes.
You write "American Christians have taken the Bible to oppress groups of people" but ignore ( at least here ) the murder of groups by muslims.
You berate American Christians at almost any opportunity.
"So, sometimes we see what we wanna see."
Matthew 7:5
Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.
Not at all suggesting anyone here is such.

Yeah, then she tells me im such a bigot for being more appalled with Islam as oppose to other Faiths.

 

[Debateable]

That is silly!

If all people followed and obeyed the teachings of Christ there would be no rape.

To say otherwise is ignorant and asinine

The teachings of just Jesus then no, but god definitely encouraged it. To deny that is turning a blind eye.

Besides, we all know that it's way more important to be sure to use one of the ten commandments to not boil a kid in it's mothers milk instead of thou shall not rape. I mean how else would anyone know?

 

[Spiderman]

Deuteronomy 22:13-29) spoke directly against forcing a woman into a sexual encounter against her will, or what we know today as rape

Deuteronomy 22:25-27 condemns rape, even advocating the death penalty for perpetrators of rape

 

[Deidre]

Deidre;
You seem to write a great deal about the shortcomings of the Christian religion while almost never mentioning far worse conditions within other Abrahamic faiths.
You mention often about how homosexuals are/were presecuted in the U.S. by Chrisitans yet never mention outright atrocities still being committed by islam against homosexuals. The very recent killing of 2 homosexual men in Mosul that were tossed hundreds of feet off a roof to thier deaths.
Homosexuals are regulary stoned to death, beaten to death, hanged, tortured then killed and thrown off tall buildings by Sharia court officials yet you never mention such horrifc crimes.
You write "American Christians have taken the Bible to oppress groups of people" but ignore ( at least here ) the murder of groups by muslims.
You berate American Christians at almost any opportunity.
"So, sometimes we see what we wanna see."
Matthew 7:5
Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.
Not at all suggesting anyone here is such.

I live in the U.S. And I'm well aware of the atrocities that go on throughout the middle east. But, before I can pull the weeds out of my overseas neighbors' yards, shouldn't I figure out what is wrong in my own?

And it is because of secularism, that we are seeing the tides turning away from allowing Christianity to shape the laws in the U.S., not religion. I don't berate American Christians, I'm stating that for a predominantly Christian country, it has done a lot of screwed up things.