Bird123
Well-Known Member
Yes, you are right. It's very very sad. What are they teaching the children???
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
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If there is a life after death.....
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Bird123
Well-Known Member
There are people who choose not to be blinded by beliefs. Many people can see what is.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
All you have are beliefs. You don't know what is. What does that even mean? It is nonsensical.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So, we are specks on a speck that goes around a speck in the Universe. But humans have a soul or spirit that lives on? And nothing else does? None of the other life forms on the planet? All the rest live, die and are gone?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
You keep saying that..
..but what is your version of guidance?
One in which mankind makes it up as they go along, and no unity amongst nations?
Yes .. he has given us intelligence to use .. but not abuse.
Yes .. we will all make mistakes, and hopefully learn from them.
I don't know about that .. our past and future is hidden from us, and most people
do not regularly see angels, for example.
G-d hides what He wishes .. we have independent thought, and our lives are 'recorded'.
Those who turn away from G-d will come to know.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Reality is so much more than beliefs and assumptions. How much are you missing by ignoring what stares you in the face? Widen your view! Expand your thinking! It's waiting to be Discovered!
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Reality is so much more than your beliefs and assumptions. How much are you missing by ignoring what stares you in the face?
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Guidance reflects the one guiding. If you blindly follow the one guiding, how can you ever expect to advance beyond their level of understanding? We are all meant to THINK!! One is supposed to become more than the sum of their teaching. Listen to the advice of others but choose your own path! Life's lessons are best learned that way.
No unity among nations is a problem to be solved. Wisdom will be acquired along the journey to solve that problem. Don't the petty things mankind holds so dear get in the way of unity? Everybody wants to rule the world. Do you want to be controlled? How does unity work with control? What about Hate? People give hate in an attempt to control the actions of others? How does unity work with hate?
There are many lessons that need to be learned before true unity can happen. It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. If you rise to a Higher Level and refuse to value all those petty things mankind holds so dear, your actions and choices can change all around you. You will be the one guiding then. Your actions will speak louder than words and the changes for many will span generations.
Are you sure God is hiding things? Granted parameters are set for one's life for the lessons to be learned, however the knowledge is around us all. How many choose to limit themselves? How many carry a narrow view instead of expanding to a limitless view?
People place conditions on others. Why? Is it an attempt to control the actions of others? You do this or else or you can't do that. I know a lady who became a nurse in spite of everyone in her life except myself telling her it was impossible. Do you choose to accept the beliefs of others? Isn't accepting a limit?
What I am getting at is God is not like mankind. God already knows the petty things mankind hold so dear will not bring the best results. Mankind is in the process of learning this for themselves as we speak. Even you are learning. Is, you better do this or God will get you, really what one wants to teach others? Are threats petty? How many petty things are being taught today?
God is Unconditional. Do you really think turning away from God is going to matter? Do you really think God turns away from His children regardless of their choices. God is going to teach all His children, in time, Great Knowledge and Great Wisdom through their free choices regardless of what those choices might be. So if you want to turn away from God, that free choice is there without wrath or anger returning. Through our free choices every child will Discover for themselves what the best choices really are. This is the best way. God is very very Smart. Do not underestimate God's Intelligence. God leads us all to a Higher Level. We were never meant to follow. We were meant to stand and walk forward without the need of crutches.
My advise: Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!!
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Yes. Yo understand reality one must must base beliefs and assumptions with objective evidence, then test it experimentally.
This is what science and reason does, and what religion does not.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Yes, I do..
Yes, I do.
I believe G-d turned away from Pharaoh and his army, and favoured the children of Israel.
..not because they were "the" chosen people .. but because G-d favours the oppressed.
..some people let themselves be led by satan.
They have to change themselves, and turn towards G-d .. if not, they ruin their own souls.
..and G-d knows who are wilful, and who are not.
Pride comes before a fall.
Agreed. Rely on objective, empirical evidence, not your own perceptions, and certainly not on the untested perceptions of others.
Yes, we should think. We should use reason and logic to assess objective evidence, not rely on folklore, gut feelings or public consensus.
He seems to be hiding Himself, since He's created no objective, observable, or testable evidence of His existence.
Listen to yourself! You advocate reason, then go preaching about a mythological magician, with no empirical evidence He even exists.
Do you really think this Abrahamic God is any better evidenced than Isis, Thor or Quetzalcoatl?
If any God exists, he's chosen to leave no testable, objective evidence of His existence.
Had you been born in ancient Egypt or Tenochtitlan, I daresay you'd be a fervent believer in their deities, inasmuch as your faith relies more on cultural consensus than actual evidence.
It's very clear!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You can bank on that. It's very clear.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Yes, Beliefs are the start of the journey and never the end. The burden of proof will always rest on the one who seeks the knowledge. Further, truth must always be questioned even long held truth. One might think one has truth only to Discover with more knowledge that one's truth was never more than a belief all along. Example: At one time, truth was that the smallest part of an element was the atom. New Discoveries show that was only a belief all along.
Science will Discover God before religion will. Science strives to Discover new knowledge and most important, science corrects the errors.
Religion already knows it all, doesn't seek, and have they ever corrected any error?
Sure, it will take much time, however at least science is walking toward God whether they realize this or not.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Science will never Discover God.
That statement alone demonstrates that you do not know God, as you claim to.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Clearly, you do not know God at all. You have been corrupted by those holy books.
God is at a Higher Level, right??? Is it really a Higher Level to turn away from your children? Do you really see God as a Monster?
So much more knowledge lives beyond the surface. God has no favorite children. Look for the changes, the learning, and the growth rather than the pain.
There is no such thing as a soul. We are all spiritual beings in our true natures. We are not these physical bodies we have been placed in. As a spiritual being, we are all Eternal.
What is wrong with being willful? Isn't Will a key part of doing anything at all? God grants us all free will. Why would you think that is bad? Now if you value the petty thing of control, I can see how you might have a problem.
God is very very smart. Do you really think a Being capable of creating universe really has a problem with anybody? Look beyond the petty things you have been taught to value. There is so much more to Discover.
Satan is a creation of mankind. Mankind values Blame. Mankind created the idea of Satan because mankind can not claim responsibility for those free choices. Why not? Pride??
If Satan really did exist, Satan would be just like all God's children. Satan would be on his own journey learning, growing, and moving forward Discovering what the best choices really are. In time, just like all God's children, Satan would Discover how to create a Heavenly state for himself and others.
When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices. Bad choices will no longer be viable choices one could make. Don't you see? All the kiddies are going to make it. There is no time limit on learning. After all, we do have eternity to work with.
You see, there really is no reason to value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. They will never bring the best results!!
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We are all spiritual beings who inhabit physical bodies while we are living on earth. The soul is the person, the physical body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around. It is the soul that is Eternal, the body dies at the end of this life.
There is no logical connection between smart and capable and having a problem with certain people. God has a problem with people if He disapproves of their behaviors.
I agree with that since I don't believe that Satan is a entity that exists.
Baha'is do not believe that there is an entity called Satan. We believe that Satan as referred to in the Bible is an allegory for the lower material nature of man, the evil ego within man.
“God is loving to all. Shall we be unjust or unkind to anyone? Is this allowable in the sight of God? God provides for all. Is it befitting for us to prevent the flow of His merciful provisions for mankind? God has created all in His image and likeness. Shall we manifest hatred for His creatures and servants? This would be contrary to the will of God and according to the will of Satan, by which we mean the natural inclinations of the lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.”
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Ok, widen the view. You are insisting physical proof of a Spiritual Being. Do you really think that is possible? On the other hand, a Spiritual Being acting in a time-based causal universe is different. The results of any action can be seen. Understand God's actions and you will understand God. Unlike holy books, God's actions can not be altered by mankind.
All the physics of this world add up perfectly. A Leopard does change it's spots, so must the people factor add up perfectly. The people factor is much more complicated because it carries so many more variables. If you search for God, the base one should never fall below is that everything about God must add up.
Look around you at God's creation. Study the why and the purpose of everything. It might take years, however a view of it all will come together. At this point, you will still only have beliefs. On the other hand, if your understanding reaches a certain level, you might just get a visit from God. This will be something one will not be capable of duplicating. If you reach this point, you will have your proof.
Hold onto your hat. God is very High Intelligence. It will be a struggle just to keep up. God is working on multiple levels with multiple views. Without a certain amount of understanding, most would just be confused by the experience.
A few moments interaction with God might take a smart person a week to realize all that was said. Who knows how much went over one's head? Perhaps, I have said enough. I have pointed a good direction. I think everyone can Discover something. If God exists, God can be found. God can be found.
How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? God had the knowledge around all the time. It waited to be Discovered. All the secrets of God and the universe stare us all in the face. The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that. I work on mine every day.
Life isn't about believing or finding God. I am just one who had to know the Real Truth.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
It is "we", who have the problem.
G-d has no needs .. He is independent of His creation.
He wishes good for ALL of us, but knows that some of us will fail.
Life is not an easy test. Our intentions are the most important thing.
G-d is Merciful .. but He cannot save a soul that refuses to be saved.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Your post reminded me of what I said to you a few weeks ago about my former Christian beliefs in Satan and demons. I'd like to re-post that here.
I'd like to say that I appreciate you sharing your Baha'i beliefs about demons and Satan. It helped me realize that I was still holding onto the belief in them from my old Christian indoctrination and needed to let it go, and it prompted me to reevaluate my viewpoint on nonhuman entities. As I read your posts, I finally realized that my belief in demons and Satan was the last remnant of my indoctrination that needed to be abandoned and allowed to die out. Prior to reading your posts and actively participating in this thread, I had never given much thought to my beliefs about them. I turned to my Wiccan friends for guidance, and they told me that they too held onto their Christian beliefs about demons and Satan when they first began to practice Wicca and that it took them some time to overcome these beliefs and let them go. I had a vague idea of what Wiccans believe about demons and Satan, but as I said, I didn't think much of it until I read your posts and began to participate in this thread. My friends believe that demons and Satan represent the harmful or negative impulses within us and are not evil entities (fallen angels), as Christianity teaches. However, some Wiccans, I was told, believe in external demons, but they are not malevolent nonhuman entities with personalities and the intent to deceive humans. It is merely a means to describe the manifestation of negative emotional energy, which I compared to the poltergeist activity attributed to a highly stressed living person. I also discovered that Wiccans, like Baha'is, do not recognize Satan as a real entity. I find it somewhat ironic that my participation in this thread (with the OP's attempt to prove the existence of demons) contributed in part to my recent decision to abandon my previous beliefs about demons and Satan. I consider that to be a positive influence.