If there was universe before big bang

[PruePhillip]

Your history isn’t up to date.

You have forgotten that before the exile to Babylon in 587 BCE, some people from Judah had fled to Egypt as refugees, several times, first (earlier) from the Neo-Assyrians and then from the Neo-Babylonians.

They became permanent residents in Egypt, and lived for generations in Egypt.

More Jews came to Egypt after Jews returned to Israel from Babylon. Jews didn’t have to live in post-Babylon Israel or Judah, but they not only lived in Egypt, some chose to live in Syria during the Hellenistic period, like Seleucia and Antioch for instances. And not just headed west; some chose to migrate east, like Persia.

These same Jews were living in Alexandria in Hellenistic period, were bilingual and were responsible for translating the scriptures from Hebrew to Koine Greek, hence the earliest Septuagint.

My points are that Jews weren’t confined to living only in Judah or Judaea. Some chose to move out, and some were forced out as refugees.

Do you seriously think that Babylon was the only times they lived in exiles? You seriously need to update your knowledge of history.

Sure, accept your point. But I wasn't getting into the minutiae of Jewish history.

 

[ppp]

Sort of lost the thread here --- too many threads for me.
If Jesus is not the Messianic Redeemer then we have a quandry - either someone else was this Redeemer
and its lost to history (?) or a suffering Redeemer is yet to come - and Israel will end with his figure. But
that doesn't make sense, particularly with the Jews losing Israel again.

Claiming that Isaiah was talking about Rome is still in justified.

There is no quandary about a messiah or a redeemer until you can demonstrate that either you or the writers of the Bible know or are capable of knowing what any of you are talking about. That has not happened yet.

 

[PruePhillip]

Claiming that Isaiah was talking about Rome is still in justified.

There is no quandary about a messiah or a redeemer until you can demonstrate that either you or the writers of the Bible know or are capable of knowing what any of you are talking about. That has not happened yet.

Isaiah spoke about many things in the future, including a new-new Israel, the greening of Israel (will see this next year --
how Israelis carted top soil to the Negev desert, even) but much concerned the impending Babylonian captivity.
Again... thread overload. Too many topics. What we are talking about? Wasn't that just the Jacob one when he blessed
Juda and spoke of a future Hebrew nation, but it ends with the Messiah ???? That happened First and Second Century
AD..

 

[ppp]

What we are talking about?

That your claim that Isaiah was talking about Rome is still unjustified.

 

[sun rise]

Well, you might be right. But if was published in 2014. Can you find more?

I had a few seconds and found this Will String Theory Finally Be Put to the Experimental Test?

We'll see.

 

[PruePhillip]

That your claim that Isaiah was talking about Rome is still unjustified.

I am sure I spoke about Ezekiel and Daniel as refering to Rome. Isaiah could have mentioned Rome,
not saying that he did, but I can't think of anything he wrote about that nation.
Isaiah mentioned 'a second time' I think, about Israel returning to its ancestral land. That's all.

 

[ChristineM]

Israel was conquered, many times - Assyrians, Moabites, Egyptians, Greeks etc..
But Isaiah and Ezekiel only speak of TWO 'returns' to Israel - the first return would
be the one the Jews longed for - Babylon. The second return confused the Jews,
particularly those still in captivity - why speak of a SECOND return when here we
are exiled and in slavery the FIRST time?

Babylon exiled many Jews for 70 years.
Rome destroyed Israel for1800 years.

That the Jews remained ONE PEOPLE for all that time, and lamented the end
of the temple was remarkable to Gentile kings, philosophers and generals. But
in the end it actually happened, the Jews went back to Israel.

A bit like ancient Babylonians wailing the loss of Babylon, and then in the 20th
Century seizing Iraq, setting up their capital again, resurrecting their language
and become a regional power. Not going to happen. But it did with the Jews.

Which is why I don't go by the bible, it omits much, fudges history to make false claims, misrepresents and teaches that misrepresentation as fact.

And still Jesus was never a Jewish Messiah

 

[PruePhillip]

Which is why I don't go by the bible, it omits much, fudges history to make false claims, misrepresents and teaches that misrepresentation as fact.

And still Jesus was never a Jewish Messiah

We seem to be getting a grip on the story of Israel from Abraham's time - we now know he really did
see domesticated camels, his people could read and write, he most likely DID see the destruction of
Sodom and Gomorrah, and yes, his grandson most likely did go down to Egypt, like many other
Semites, during a prolong drought, and be greeted by a Semitic Pharoh.
Can't see the problem really....

 

[ppp]

I am sure I spoke about Ezekiel and Daniel as refering to Rome.

Ok. Same issue. No evidence of that.

 

[ChristineM]

We seem to be getting a grip on the story of Israel from Abraham's time - we now know he really did
see domesticated camels, his people could read and write, he most likely DID see the destruction of
Sodom and Gomorrah, and yes, his grandson most likely did go down to Egypt, like many other
Semites, during a prolong drought, and be greeted by a Semitic Pharoh.
Can't see the problem really....

no problem, you are entitled to believe whatever you want.


If he actually lived the person who was Abraham was an old man around 2000bc.

History tells us domesticated camels did not arrive in the middle east until about 930bc.

And "most likely" does not cut it with me

 

[PruePhillip]

no problem, you are entitled to believe whatever you want.


If he actually lived the person who was Abraham was an old man around 2000bc.

History tells us domesticated camels did not arrive in the middle east until about 930bc.

And "most likely" does not cut it with me

Domesticated camels were all over the Middle East going back over a thousand years before Abraham.
Saying they were everywhere except Canaan is daft - this area was the crossroads for ancient trade.
The points I raised have little to do with being 'entitled to believe', they are historical and archaelogical.

 

[PruePhillip]

Ok. Same issue. No evidence of that.

Sure, Daniel didn't mention the name ROME because Rome didn't exist as we know it today.
Just a village in Italy.
But Daniel spoke of a nation of iron that would destroy Israel and lead theJews into captivity.
And also, 'cut off' the Messiah, who would die for his people.
I am fine this is Rome.

And in Revelations it speaks of the whore of false religion who sits upon 'seven hills.' I am
satisfied this is Rome also.

And it speaks of this empire which shall fall, but never fall - and I am satisfied this is also
Rome - this nation didn't really collapse in the fifth Century as it lived on in the east. And
then there was the Roman Catholic Church which ruled the whole world. Then there was
the Holy Roman Empire. Then a conga line of nations calling themselves the new Rome,
ie America, Italy, Germany, even Russia....

 

[Wildswanderer]

What if our universe was not the first one, but just one of many universes that has existed?

How would it affect your religious beliefs?

Would a string of universes be yet an other reason for people to not believe in a God or gods?

No, how would that change anything? If anything it's more reason to believe a creator was necessary.

 

[ppp]

That your claim that Isaiah was talking about Rome is still unjustified.

Sure, Daniel didn't mention the name ROME because Rome didn't exist as we know it today.
Just a village in Italy.
But Daniel spoke of a nation of iron that would destroy Israel and lead theJews into captivity.
And also, 'cut off' the Messiah, who would die for his people.
I am fine this is Rome.

Your being fine with your opinion does not justify your opinion.

 

[PruePhillip]

Your being fine with your opinion does not justify your opinion.

And that's how people believe things. Are you 'fine' that electricity flow THROUGH a wire, or AROUND it?
Are you fine the sun rises in the east, or that the earth revolves?
Are you fine that Hannibal was an historic figure, or that there is no evidence for Hannibal?
You fine there are no miracles but that the universe just popped into existance for no reason at all?

 

[ppp]

And that's how people believe things. Are you 'fine' that electricity flow THROUGH a wire, or AROUND it?
Are you fine the sun rises in the east, or that the earth revolves?
Are you fine that Hannibal was an historic figure, or that there is no evidence for Hannibal?
You fine there are no miracles but that the universe just popped into existance for no reason at all?

Oh, you poor, sweet summer child. That is how some people, such as yourself, believe things. That is the difference between us.

The world is full of realities that I am not fine with. And yet I accept that they are true because that is what the evidence indicates.

 

[PruePhillip]

Oh, you poor, sweet summer child. That is how some people, such as yourself, believe things. That is the difference between us.

The world is full of realities that I am not fine with. And yet I accept that they are true because that is what the evidence indicates.

Let me present the above as QUESTIONS,
1 - Are you 'fine' that electricity flow THROUGH a wire, or AROUND it?
2 - Are you fine the sun rises in the east, or that the earth revolves?
3 - Are you fine that Hannibal was an historic figure, or that there is no evidence for Hannibal?
4 - You fine there are no miracles but that the universe just popped into existance for no reason at all?

ps I am not a child. I am old enough to remember people stating 'There is no evidence for any King David.
This person did not exist.'
It wasn't a scientific statement, yet people gave themselve scientific airs.

And they were doubly wrong - wrong about science and wrong about the bible.

 

[ppp]

Let me present the above as QUESTIONS,

If you were being honest then you would ask me if there are things that I am not fine with. Because if there is even one thing that I believe, but am not fine with, that one thing is enough to disprove your claim, "And that's how people believe things."

 

[PruePhillip]

If you were being honest then you would ask me if there are things that I am not fine with. Because if there is even one thing that I believe, but am not fine with, that one thing is enough to disprove your claim, "And that's how people believe things."

1 - Do you believe electricity flows THROUGH a wire, or AROUND it?
2 - Do you believe the sun rises in the east, or that the earth revolves?
3 - Do you believe that Hannibal was an historic figure, or that there is no evidence for Hannibal?
4 - Do you believe there are no miracles but that the universe just popped into existance for no reason at all?

 

[rational experiences]

If a man says I'm special. He's just a human the same as everyone.

So a woman not sciences inventor realises all man's themes only is science as humans know.

You don't own my body type woman ovary. You go back to being a man's body type from a deceased man father....man sperm. Not ovary owner.

So you say I magically changed. Fake immaculate conception theme. About self man in science terms medical.

You say don't self idolise as science did. Said it was special when it was our destroyer the practice by human only.

So here you are today brain mind conscious sacrificed brain disturbed by every single changed natural review. Your human consciousness.

You ask if earths universe by a big bang blasted had changed.

You say as I preached one third gods O planet bodies fell scattered by my man's science on earth causes.

So you investigate observe.

You say other galaxies have suns yet own lots of planets. You say laws exist in space yourself.

You do all comparing you do all types of status and stories.

What for? You're just humans living exactly where you are.

You don't seem to answer your own realised behaviours in science. You seem to think you are dominion over everything hence tell it what it is ....what it's doing for human only reasons.

Not about just natural presence.