If we ask God for Proof we must be content with one proof.

[Kathryn]

Sound, not "sound proof."

It sounds like you realize that any arguments you have come off as unconvincing to people who haven't already accepted that their conclusions are true.

Maybe reflect on that.

Or maybe not. Maybe just wait and see what God has in store for you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Or maybe not. Maybe just wait and see what God has in store for you.

I find it interesting how often theists resort to revenge fantasies after reason fails them.

If it gives you comfort to imagine your god torturing me for making you look foolish, go right ahead.

 

[Kathryn]

I find it interesting how often theists resort to revenge fantasies after reason fails them.

If it gives you comfort to imagine your god torturing me for making you look foolish, go right ahead.

Weird, I'm not imagining God torturing you.

 

[Audie]

I made a general statement (that you are included in by the way, to be clear) but it doesn't include every atheist that ever walked the earth.

I know what you said.
Wish I'd not read it.
I won't make the mistake again.

 

[Audie]

And you offer no explanation. Your atheist wit and intellect is astonishingly on par with brit humor. Sorry, that may seem a little personal, but you did boast atheists to be well educated and intelligent. I suppose I'm to be a mind reader now. I didn't get it. You stated this much twice already. I didn't hear it, I read it. You stated as much in the text you presented for my viewing. You may have said it, also. How would I know? I didn't hear you say it. Maybe I don't get it. I may be offended by your intellect and education. Christians are far removed from all that "stuff". Right? Intellect and education I mean. We believe in God after all.

I could explain why 2 plus 2 is four.

But it's nothing to me whether or not you like to think things through.

 

[CG Didymus]

I have never once seen any reason to think that any of the many, many versions of 'God' that people believe in are at all real, let alone tangible or evident. I find them indistinguishable from fiction.

Hey, I tried to believe. And the things that impressed me were the great miracles that God did. I remember how God had Moses go to Pharaoh and told him to let the Hebrews go. What a joke... Why would Pharaoh do that? Except by the time God was done sending plagues and disasters, Pharaoh was glad to be rid of the Hebrews, Moses and their God. But then he decides to go chase them down. Bad idea. His whole army gets buried in water. If a person can believe all that stuff, it's pretty impressive. There is no one like God.

Another one of my favorites is when Moses lays down his staff and it turns into a snake. But Pharaoh does the same. Where did Pharaoh's god get that kind of power? But it doesn't matter, because Moses' snake eats Pharaoh's snake proving who's God is more powerful.

Then, I think, the most important miracle. And that's because if anybody in any religion claims that their God is real let them prove it by doing what Elijah did. He challenged the prophets of Baal to call down fire from their god.

1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.” And the people did not answer him a word. 22 Then Elijah said to the people, “I, even I only, am left a prophet of the Lord, but Baal's prophets are 450 men. 23 Let two bulls be given to us, and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. 24 And you call upon the name of your god, and I will call upon the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, he is God.”​

​

Of course, the prophets of Baal failed. Their god didn't respond. But the real God, the God of Elijah did.

30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” And all the people came near to him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that had been thrown down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord came, saying, “Israel shall be your name,” 32 and with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord. And he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two seahs[a] of seed. 33 And he put the wood in order and cut the bull in pieces and laid it on the wood. And he said, “Fill four jars with water and pour it on the burnt offering and on the wood.” 34 And he said, “Do it a second time.” And they did it a second time. And he said, “Do it a third time.” And they did it a third time. 35 And the water ran around the altar and filled the trench also with water.​

​

36 And at the time of the offering of the oblation, Elijah the prophet came near and said, “O Lord, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word. 37 Answer me, O Lord, answer me, that this people may know that you, O Lord, are God, and that you have turned their hearts back.” 38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. 39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and said, “The Lord, he is God; the Lord, he is God.”​

Now whom of all the believers in any religion would dare try this? If they believe their God is so real, then why not do this? Here's one proof that would be very convincing.

But... if they fail... and their god doesn't respond, what are we to think? Is their god as just imaginary as the one believed in by the prophets of Baal?

The God in the Bible and the NT did things. Spoke from heaven, had the Sun stand still, had his Son walk on water and get raised from the dead. Or... those were just stories. Fictional stories to make this God sound all-powerful and real.

Should we be satisfied with stories and just believe? God, supposedly, did prove himself real in the past. Why can't he still prove himself real today? Why can't believers today have their God prove himself by sending fire from heaven or parting a sea?

Like you say, they are "indistinguishable from fiction." And without proof, they remain that way.

 

[CG Didymus]

Nope. You'd make some excuse as to why it wasn't "sound proof." So I am not playing. Sorry.

Trouble is... this is another thread started by a Baha'i. He has "sound" proof that clearly shows Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ, Krishna, Buddha and everybody else ever promised to come in the end of days.

And I'm sure you have "sound" proof that shows that your prophet and God is true and real. But if you're not Baha'is, then your prophet and God is very different from the one's the Baha'is believe in. Yet... you both have "sound" proof?

It makes sense to you. It feels true and it, no doubt, changed your life. But their beliefs do the same for them. How is that possible when they are contradictory beliefs?

All true believers in a religion have very good reasons why they believe. But then what about the beliefs of the people in the other religions? Their "sound" proofs aren't that sound? I think we all need "sounder" proofs.

Or... to just accept we all have different beliefs. We all have our reasons to believe as we do, and we all have reasons to doubt and question the beliefs of others.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That would be quite impressive, if stated in
normal prose from an authoritative source.

The authoritative source would be miracle, proof
enough, in itself.

Self proclaimed prophets are available by the gross, case lots of them, ones from every culture, today and through
history. Authorities all or any?

People as utterly credulous and convinced as thee
built pyramids to house the dead in Egypt. Or to
rip out the beating hearts of the newly dead, in Mexico.

However much anyone thinks their "messenger" is real,
THEIRS is the idle fancy. How droll that " messengers" would carefully warn against any but their "message".

The bible states clearly what awaits such persons as
Mr. B of your religion.


You want to know what Sign an atheist would need?

God speaking for itself.
We don't do faith in the unseen.

For those Christians who have faith, faith is not just
sufficient, it's central to their religion.

Asking for "proof" is going contrary to the essence of
their relationship with God.

So you would offer "I do not see this would prove anything", or even in the position of No, I would need more than one proof?

The OP was not about what an Athiest would need, it about being given the chance of asking of one proof from God, and would that be enough, I personally think many would struggle with one proof.

One can ignore all this, like an Athiest most likely will.

Regards Tony

 

[Balthazzar]

I could explain why 2 plus 2 is four.

But it's nothing to me whether or not you like to think things through.

We see things differently I suppose. Have you ever heard the term "ruach"? Some cultures term it as spirit, which is how it is defined. How do you define the term God? How about universe? It helps to have some sort of understanding of the definitions of the terms people utilize. In all honesty, God could mean anything. I offered my definition, to which you suggested was meaningless or pointless to view it that way. 2 plus 2 is 4 but you already knew that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Everything is proof. There's nothing that isn't proof. Even the lies, deception, and error is proof. Whether a person accepts the proof as evidence for life, creation, and God is moot, imo. Truth is proof enough to acknowledge as true. Deception is enough to acknowledge as error. The difference between right and wrong ... Yes.

Yes, it can be seen as proof of God. I see the chance of asking God for a proof is a new bounty, I could be wrong, is there such passages in older religions?

I have done no research on this specific subject.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You want a proof that a God exists? Ask God to eliminate cancer.

The question is why it created cancer in the first place.

That has naught to do with the OP, it is about if an individual would ask for a proof.

Regards Tony

 

[an anarchist]

That has naught to do with the OP, it is about if an individual would ask for a proof.

How does one “properly” ask for a proof, in your view?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How does one “properly” ask for a proof, in your view?

Be honest and just. Want to truly know the answer to the proof/question you are asking, ask from the heart, be sincere.

Then be open to the answer/realisation to that question, that will arrive.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How does one “properly” ask for a proof, in your view?

That is the spirit of this OP. Thank you.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You want a proof that a God exists? Ask God to eliminate cancer.

The question is why it created cancer in the first place.

I do not see that as a question that one is asking for proof of God.

It is asking why God's Creation contains birth and decay. Science is finding answers as to how and why cancers form and finding ways to treat them and eventually cure us of cancer.

The answer to this also lays in purity and chastity of life and mind and our appraoxh to our own environment.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have never once seen any reason to think that any of the many, many versions of 'God' that people believe in are at all real, let alone tangible or evident. I find them indistinguishable from fiction.

The OP suggests you can ask for a proof.

That would be a personal choice.

I do feel the quoted passage might hint that a level of belief in God may be applicable before we ask, but maybe not?

Regards Tony

 

[an anarchist]

Be honest and just. Want to truly know the answer to the proof/question you are asking, ask from the heart, be sincere.

Then be open to the answer/realisation to that question, that will arrive.

Regards Tony

I made a thread when I was new to this site that had the same premise.

How to prove God.

I believe there is a simple way to prove God. It may seem too simplistic at first, but that's not the intention. Throughout my life, there have been times when I have called out to God whilst being in mortal danger, and He saved me. When I pray, He answers without fail and shows me that He is...

www.religiousforums.com

I see things differently now, though.

I think what you see as proof is merely you seeing what you want/need to see for your own well being. I don’t mean to be dismissive at all. It is simply the conclusion that I arrived to when it came to my spiritual journey.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I find it interesting how often theists resort to revenge fantasies after reason fails them

I do not see it is at all about revenge, it is just about a given opportunity, do we want to know God exists, or do we not? We can ask for one proof, sincerely, from the heart in the light of honesty and justice.

From a beleivers perspective, we are told faith is a gift given and also can be taken. A person that has lived in faith all their life can be so change on their death bed as to fall from faith, another who lived the opposite of faith all their life, can on their death bed fond the essence of true faith.

Faith is not guaranteed, it is a gift that requires us to act in accordance with the instructionsgiven with the gift.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I see things differently now, though.

I think what you see as proof is merely you seeing what you want/need to see for your own well being. I don’t mean to be dismissive at all. It is simply the conclusion that I arrived to when it came to my spiritual journey.

All the best with life, truly I mean that.

My observations on this are and one of the best pieces of advice I see Baha'u'llah has given, which is quoted from the Quran is

"Even as He hath revealed: ‘Do men think when they say “We believe” they shall be let alone and not be put to proof?’
Bahá’u’lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 8-9"

Once we say we have faith, the tests really do begin, there is much advice on this topic, such as

"...The Almighty hath tried, and will continue to try, his servants, so that light may be distinguished from darkness, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, guidance from error, happiness from misery, and roses from thorns..." Bahá’u’lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 8-9

This is a great bounty, it helps us release ourselves from our selfish ways. They are so engrained into our way of life now, that it is a very difficult path.

Faith requires detachment from our self. This is not offered in a judgemental way, as all those with faith are all tested. Sometimes having no tests, is the hardest of tests.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Trouble is... this is another thread started by a Baha'i. He has "sound" proof that clearly shows Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ, Krishna, Buddha and everybody else ever promised to come in the end of days.

That has naught to do with this OP CG. Each individual gets to choose, they get a chance to ask of a proof from God.

All the best, if you decide to do that.

Regards Tony