If you are a religious believer, do you have to?

[Trailblazer]

That Bahaollah is whatever is the authorized position of the HoJ, it is the generally accepted doctrine among Bahais. Therefore Bahais are another orthodox religious group.

It is not a doctrine, it is a belief.

The belief that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age is not a doctrine because it was not taught by a Church, political party, or other group. It was written in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

Doctrine: a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=what+is+a+doctrine

It was taught by Baha'u'llah, so it is not a doctrine. It would only be a doctrine if it was taught by the UHJ, which is the governing body of the Baha'i Faith.

They insist that they worship the God of Abraham whom Moses, Jesus and Mohammad, worshiped; though they say that the uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher got the most recent message from Allah which does away with the corruption that has happened in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

That is also a belief, a belief based upon the teachings of Baha'u'llah, not a doctrine established by the UHJ.
The Baha'i Faith has no doctrines, only teachings and laws.

 

[stvdv]

That's right, if it was any other age it could be Krishna or Jesus or Muhammad, etc., but in this age it is exclusively Baha'u'llah

Krishna, Jesus etc. are beyond time. Hence there is no need to change Guru (and definitely not for that reason)
Scriptures are the stepping stones; but for the final exam you are not allowed to peek into your Scripture of course

I know it is also Sai Baba

But Sai Baba specifically said that He did not come to establish a new religion
He even said "there are plenty Religions already, so you choose one that is close to you
And He added "I help you to get better in the religion that you choose"

 

[firedragon]

The belief that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age is not a doctrine because it was not taught by a Church, political party, or other group. It was written in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

You just defined doctrine. If the Bahai's teach that Bahaullah was the manifestation of God, that is "doctrine".

 

[Trailblazer]

You just defined doctrine. If the Bahai's teach that Bahaullah was the manifestation of God, that is "doctrine".

Nope, the Baha'is do not teach that, Baha'u'llah wrote that.
Baha'is do not have to 'teach' what is clearly written in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
Baha'is have no clergy, so nobody teaches us anything; we teach ourselves.

Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina, meaning "teaching, instruction") is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. The etymological Greek analogue is "catechism".[1]

Doctrine - Wikipedia

 

[firedragon]

Nope, the Baha'is do not teach that, Baha'u'llah wrote that.
Baha'is do not have to 'teach' what is clearly written in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
Baha'is have no clergy, so nobody teaches us anything; we teach ourselves.

Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina, meaning "teaching, instruction") is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. The etymological Greek analogue is "catechism".[1]

Doctrine - Wikipedia

Okay. So are you saying the Bahai institution does not teach "bahaullah was the manifestation of God"? No problem. So you just made something up that Bahais dont teach this purely for arguments sake. No worries.

So Bahaullah taught that. Thats still, doctrine.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay. So are you saying the Bahai institution does not teach "bahaullah was the manifestation of God"? No problem. So you just made something up that Bahais dont teach this purely for arguments sake. No worries.

So Bahaullah taught that. Thats still, doctrine.

Correction: Baha'u'llah did not teach that, Baha'u'llah revealed that in His Writings.
It is not a doctrine, it was revealed in scriptures. It is no more a doctrine than the parables of Jesus are a doctrine.

 

[firedragon]

Correction: Baha'u'llah did not teach that, Baha'u'llah revealed that in His Writings.

Still doctrine.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In 1850 it was Bahaullah.
I know it is also Sai Baba

Yeah, God has sent more messengers after the Iranian's time. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was another (Mahdi).

 

[danieldemol]

The belief that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age is not a doctrine because it was not taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

Doctrine: a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=what+is+a+doctrine

It was taught by Baha'u'llah, so it is not a doctrine, not anymore than the teachings of Jesus in the Bible are a doctrine.

The teachings of Jesus are doctrines, this is from your own definition in full (not just the parts you cherry picked as part of your semantic agenda).

a: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMACatholic doctrine
b: a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relationsthe Truman Doctrine
claw : a principle of law established through past decisions
d: a military principle or set of strategies
e: something that is taught

The teachings of an authority such as Jesus are "something that is taught" and therefore fit your definition like a hand in a glove.
In my opinion.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I have to follow your dogma. With out faith life would be bleak and apocalyptic.

 

[Truthseeker]

I disagree with that, the orthodoxy is that you have to believe Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age.

In my opinion.

What I'm trying to say that no one gets declared covenant-breakers or when Popes excommunicate for having any unusual opinion. You only get thrown out of the Baha'i Faith for trying to wrest away leadership from the head of the Baha'i Faith.

Baha'u'llah Himself said He was the Messenger of God for this age, and those who profess to be Baha'is when they first join hopefully are vetted that they actually believe that, and not just because they believe in a lot of His ideas. Sometimes, that hasn't happened, and what usually happens is that the person becomes inactive or becomes restive about the laws of the Baha'i Faith because they don't recognize the authority of Baha'u'llah. As far as I know, only a few of those have declared as not being Baha'is by the UHJ, there's a wide latitude for that, the UHJ tolerates a lot.

 

[Truthseeker]

Conscious thoughts, In Hinduism (Buddhism and Jainism too), one does not have to believe in or worship Gods or Goddesses to be religious. One can be totally religious by completing his/her duties

That's what I've understood about Hinduism, it's not what you believe, but what you do. I've researched a little bit. We have differences of opinion in Baha'i, but nowhere near to Hinduism. Hinduism has far more diversity of belief. The good thing about Hinduism is that Hindus get along well and tolerate differences of opinion well.

Some get get along with other religions well, and some don't. You, at least seem to have trouble relating to Abrahamic religions.

 

[danieldemol]

What I'm trying to say that no one gets declared covenant-breakers or what is that Popes do, I forget, for have any unusual opinion. You only get thrown out of the Baha'i Faith for trying to wrest away leadership from the head of the Baha'i Faith.

Actually I doubt you are telling the whole truth here.

Can a person have an unusual opinion such as for example that Baha'u'llah is not the Manifestation of God for this age? Even if you do not challenge the spiritual assemblies as being head of the faith i doubt you are going to last.

In my opinion

 

[Neuropteron]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

What if those you meet have understood deeper wisdom from the scripture, and by this see that being more free thinker is actually fully ok? would you think you could be more free thinker too?

(I guess this thread is more toward Abrahamic believers, but feel free to take part, no matter what you believe)

i,

If a person questions the belief he is following, perhaps he should make sure it is the right path before following it.
Once the decision is made the bible says we should "keep testing" our faith.
The simple admonition to keep testing, is an indication that we should never have a closed mind, and always be ready, to consider valid reasons for changing it.

However once a "truth" is established, to change it based on the inspired expressions of false prophets is either due to lack of foundation for your faith or an unsteady character trait.
James said this:
Jam 1 7,8 : ...he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about...he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.

Your question concerning "free thinkers" is interesting, to answer I find that the term has to be defined properly, since it can mean so many things.
For instance it can mean unrestricted, unimpeded or unconstrained thinking. On a negative note it could mean unengaged and loose, unregulated and uncontrolled.

Perhaps the notion of being a "free thinker" is overrated and miss-understood.
Since the source of our actions stem from our thoughts. It seems wise to choose boundaries for our thought patterns.
I think the best boundaries are the ones given by God in the bible.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have to follow your dogma. With out faith life would be bleak and apocalyptic.

That is very funny. You theists seem like drug addicts. Unless you get your drug, there is no fun in life. Have you checked with any atheist? We are happy without any drug.

 

[Truthseeker]

Can a person have an unusual opinion such as for example that Baha'u'llah is not the Manifestation of God for this age? Even if you do not challenge the spiritual assemblies as being head of the faith i doubt you are going to last.

I addressed that after I edited my answer which you just quoted. There are some that have not been vetted properly in the beginning about Baha'u'llah being a Manifestation of God and understanding what that means, and they become inactive before long or fight the authority of what Baha'u'llah said, because they don't understand the actual station of Baha'u'llah, and a few of those have been declared as not being Baha'is anymore, but very few. There's a caution and latitude for error that the UHJ has.

 

[Truthseeker]

That is very funny. You theists seem like drug addicts. Unless you get your drug, there is no fun in life. Have you checked with any atheist? We are happy without any drug.

No, you can't relate to Abrahamic religions at all. In the Eastern religions and the Abrahamic religions, there's a lack of understanding on both sides. The way they look at things are very different.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You, at least seem to have trouble relating to Abrahamic religions.

That is true. I cannot relate to Abrahamic religions with their insistence on One God (If one is OK, what is wrong with many?); method of God's communication (prophets / sons / messengers / saints of a later date / manifestations / mahdis / or whatever other label these people choose for themselves without any proof); problem of evil; exclusivity; various kinds of heavens, hells, judgments, salvation and deliverance, last days; refusal to accept scientific findings while accepting hare-brained schemes for creation and its aftermath.

 

[Truthseeker]

That is true. I cannot relate to Abrahamic religions with their insistence on One God (If one, what is wrong with many); method of God's communication (prophets / sons / messengers / saints of a later date / manifestations / mahdis / or whatever other label these people choose for themselves without any proof); problem of evil; exclusivity; various kinds of heavens, hells, judgments, salvation and deliverance, last days; refusal to accept scientific findings while accepting hare-brained schemes for creation and its aftermath.

Some of what you are observing are not from the Prophets themselves, but from what is derived by fallible men from what those Prophets said. There is also the problem of the validity of a text transmitted orally over centuries.

 

[Trailblazer]

The teachings of Jesus are doctrines, this is from your own definition in full (not just the parts you cherry picked as part of your semantic agenda).

a: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA Catholic doctrine
b: a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relationsthe Truman Doctrine
claw : a principle of law established through past decisions
d: a military principle or set of strategies
e: something that is taught

The teachings of an authority such as Jesus are "something that is taught" and therefore fit your definition like a hand in a glove.
In my opinion.

The teachings of Jesus are not a doctrine because Jesus was not a religion or a political party.

Doctrine meaning

Doctrine is defined as a principle or group of principles which are taught by a religion or political party.

An example of doctrine is the teaching of the Ten Commandments in Christianity.​

Something taught; a teaching.

A widely accepted legal tenet.

A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.

A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.

Something taught; teachings.

A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.

The definition of doctrine is an official statement of policy about how two countries interact.

An example of doctrine is the Truman Doctrine, that said the US would work to contain the Soviet Union.​

A rule, theory, or principle of law.

An official statement of a nation's policy, esp. toward other nations.

The Monroe Doctrine.
​

A belief or tenet, especially about philosophical or theological matters.

The body of teachings of a religion, or a religious leader, organization, group or text.

The incarnation is a basic doctrine of classical Christianity.
The four noble truths summarise the main doctrines of Buddhism.
​

Something taught as the principles or creed of a religion, political party, etc.; tenet or tenets; belief; dogma.

Doctrine Meaning | Best 13 Definitions of Doctrine