If you are a religious believer, do you have to?

[danieldemol]

The teachings of Jesus are not a doctrine because Jesus was not a religion or a political party.

Doctrine meaning

Doctrine is defined as a principle or group of principles which are taught by a religion or political party.

An example of doctrine is the teaching of the Ten Commandments in Christianity.​

Something taught; a teaching.

A widely accepted legal tenet.

A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.

A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.

Something taught; teachings.

A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.

The definition of doctrine is an official statement of policy about how two countries interact.

An example of doctrine is the Truman Doctrine, that said the US would work to contain the Soviet Union.​

A rule, theory, or principle of law.

An official statement of a nation's policy, esp. toward other nations.

The Monroe Doctrine.
​

A belief or tenet, especially about philosophical or theological matters.

The body of teachings of a religion, or a religious leader, organization, group or text.

The incarnation is a basic doctrine of classical Christianity.
The four noble truths summarise the main doctrines of Buddhism.
​

Something taught as the principles or creed of a religion, political party, etc.; tenet or tenets; belief; dogma.

Doctrine Meaning | Best 13 Definitions of Doctrine

Still cherrypicking I see. Doctrine means any and all of the above.

Pay particular attention to this definition you just provided;
The body of teachings of a religion, or a religious leader

Here is another one you just provided;
A belief or tenet, especially about philosophical or theological matters.

Again you can't say it fits one definition of doctrine but not the others so the others are wrong.

All the above are correct definitions of doctrine.

In my opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

Still cherrypicking I see. Doctrine means any and all of the above.

Pay particular attention to this definition you just provided;
The body of teachings of a religion, or a religious leader

Here is another one you just provided;
A belief or tenet, especially about philosophical or theological matters.

Again you can't say it fits one definition of doctrine but not the others so the others are wrong.

All the above are correct definitions of doctrine.

In my opinion.

Pay particular attention to the definition of a doctrine:

Doctrine is defined as a principle or group of principles which are taught by a religion or political party.

All the 13 definitions I listed are examples of a doctrine, what a doctrine can be.
However, a doctrine has to taught by a religion or political party. It is not taught by a Messenger of God.
Messengers of God have teachings, not doctrines.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is also the problem of the validity of a text transmitted orally over centuries.

The prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / LDS / manifestations / Mahdis have themselves given absolutely no proof of what they have claimed. Then comes the translation and / or interpretation of what is in a book. Abdul Baha interpreted what his father wrote, and Shoghi translated what his great-grandfather wrote. Now the HoJ do interpretation and translation. Only Allah knows what message he (Allah) sent to the Iranian preacher and why Allah had to send more people after the Iranian was gone. Can't Allah send a straight-forward message that it has to be interpreted and re-interpreted all the time? It is nothing more than what people come to believe.

.. but in this age it is exclusively Baha'u'llah, ..

That is what you believe, otherwise there was Joseph Smith, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Ramakrishna, Shirdi Sai Baba and Puttaparthy Sai Baba (as @stvdv mentions), Anandmayi and Amritanandmayi Ma, and many more. Recently Sri Sri Ravi Shakar. He is still around and bouncing. No dearth of claims to be God or Allah's spokesman/spokeswoman. The exclusivity devalues a person as well as his/her message.

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Amrutanandamayi, Anandamayi, Puttaparthy Sai Baba, Ramakrishna, Shirdi Sai Baba

 

[danieldemol]

Pay particular attention to the definition of a doctrine:

Doctrine is defined as a principle or group of principles which are taught by a religion or political party.

All the 13 definitions I listed are examples of a doctrine, what a doctrine can be.
However, a doctrine has to taught by a religion or political party. It is not taught by a Messenger of God.
Messengers of God have teachings, not doctrines.

No it doesn't, according to the other definitions doctrine can be taught by a religious leader, to say otherwise is essentially to assert that one definition is correct and others are wrong. This is simply not the case.

A doctrine can be;
A set of teachings of a religious leader.
And/or
Taught by a religion or political party
And/or
Be a belief or tenet.
Etc.

In my opinion.

Anyhow I'm growing tired of your repeated cherrpicking so I leave you to it have a blast ;-)

 

[Truthseeker]

Then comes the translation and / or interpretation of what is in a book. Abdul Baha interpreted what his father wrote, and Shoghi translated what his great-grandfather wrote.

I don't expect to agree or understand this, but Baha'u'llah gave 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi authority to do what you are talking about here. The rest of us Baha'is can understand the Baha'i Writings for ourselves, but we shouldn't insist that others agree with how we interpret them.

As to some other things you have said, just because a lot of people have made claims to reveal true things doesn't mean they are all wrong. We are free to believe from our own understanding and whatever evidence there is who is telling the truth.

Perhaps I shouldn't criticize you, I don't like to criticize, but you see to be interested in tearing down what other people believe thinking that will bring them to the truth. It doesn't always seem to be honest the way you do this, or perhaps you are not honest with yourself.

 

[1213]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?
...

I don’t think I have to anything, for example because:

”All things are lawful for me," but not all things are expedient. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be brought under the power of anything.
1 Corinthians 6:12

"All things are lawful for me," but not all things are profitable. "All things are lawful for me," but not all things build up."
1 Corinthians 10:23

But, I want to do God’s will, because I think it is good.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It doesn't always seem to be honest the way you do this, or perhaps you are not honest with yourself.

I am one of the most honest (and forth-right) person in the forum. You are welcome to tell me where I have been dishonest. I call a spade a spade (and that is the problem people have with me, not just Abrahamics, but Hindus too).

 

[Truthseeker]

I call a spade a spade (and that is the problem people have with me, not just Abrahamics, but Hindus too).

Yes, you give everybody a problem.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is what you believe, otherwise there was Joseph Smith, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Ramakrishna, Shirdi Sai Baba and Puttaparthy Sai Baba (as @stvdv mentions), Anandmayi and Amritanandmayi Ma, and many more. Recently Sri Sri Ravi Shakar. He is still around and bouncing.

And people are free to believe in those men if they want to, since we all have free will.

 

[Trailblazer]

Anyhow I'm growing tired of your repeated cherrpicking so I leave you to it have a blast ;-)

I would hardly call the list of 13 definitions "cherrypicking" but I am glad this is over because I need a rest.

Dr. Richard Kimble: They killed my wife.

Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: I know it Richard. But it's over.

[pauses and sighs]

Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: You know I'm glad. I need the rest.

The Fugitive (1993)

 

[Truthseeker]

I would hardly call the list of 13 definitions "cherrypicking" but I am glad this is over because I need a rest.

Dr. Richard Kimble: They killed my wife.

Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: I know it Richard. But it's over.

[pauses and sighs]

Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: You know I'm glad. I need the rest.

The Fugitive (1993)

I saw that movie.

 

[Trailblazer]

I saw that movie.

That has to be my favorite movie.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, you give everybody a problem.

What I try to convey is science and sense, others think it as a problem.

 

[Trailblazer]

What I try to convey is science and sense, others think it as a problem.

It is not a problem for me.

 

[Truthseeker]

What I try to convey is science and sense, others think it as a problem.

No, your opinion is not science. It is your attempt to reason. Science is based on testing of reality, things of that nature. The Baha'i Faith is not science and reason but it is compatible with science and reason.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Science is based on testing of reality, things of that nature. The Baha'i Faith is not science and reason but it is compatible with science and reason.

Science goes with evidence. And there is none for your Allah and the self-acclaimed messenger. Trailblazer has accepted many a times that existence of Allah and his choosing of a messenger can never be proved. Do you think that you can prove that?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

What if those you meet have understood deeper wisdom from the scripture, and by this see that being more free thinker is actually fully ok? would you think you could be more free thinker too?

(I guess this thread is more toward Abrahamic believers, but feel free to take part, no matter what you believe)

Judaism doesn't work this way. Judaism is for Jews, not for non-Jews. We do not proselytize, although there are those few who have such an affinity for the people of Israel that we do welcome them into our midst.

What we basically bring to the world is ethical monotheism. Ecclesiastes 12:13 "When all is said and done, this one thing remains: fear God and obey his commandments, for this is the whole of man." So basically, love God and be a good decent human being. You can do this as part of a religion, or on your own.

Orthodox Judaism spreads Noahidism as the ideal form of this, giving seven laws to follow (which are really more like seven categories). If you are interested in knowing more about Noahidism, let me know, and I can go into detail.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Judaism doesn't work this way. Judaism is for Jews, not for non-Jews. We do not proselytize, although there are those few who have such an affinity for the people of Israel that we do welcome them into our midst.

What we basically bring to the world is ethical monotheism. Ecclesiastes 12:13 "When all is said and done, this one thing remains: fear God and obey his commandments, for this is the whole of man." So basically, love God and be a good decent human being. You can do this as part of a religion, or on your own.

Orthodox Judaism spreads Noahidism as the ideal form of this, giving seven laws to follow (which are really more like seven categories). If you are interested in knowing more about Noahidism, let me know, and I can go into detail.

It is aways goo to learn new info And i do know very very little about Noahidism

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is aways goo to learn new info And i do know very very little about Noahidism

Perhaps @Rival will also chime in, as she is Noahide.

A Noahide is a person who accepts the teachings of Judaism, but doesn't care to become a Jew and take on the 613 laws that Jews are obligated to. They remain a non-Jew and obey the seven laws of Noah. What are those seven laws?

1. Do not profane G‑d’s Oneness in any way.
   Acknowledge that there is a single G‑d who cares about what we are doing and desires that we take care of His world.
2. Do not curse your Creator.
   No matter how angry you may be, do not take it out verbally against your Creator.
3. Do not murder.
   The value of human life cannot be measured. To destroy a single human life is to destroy the entire world—because, for that person, the world has ceased to exist. It follows that by sustaining a single human life, you are sustaining an entire universe.
4. Do not eat a limb of a living animal.
   Respect the life of all G‑d’s creatures. As intelligent beings, we have a duty not to cause undue pain to other creatures.
5. Do not steal.
   Whatever benefits you receive in this world, make sure that none of them are at the unfair expense of someone else.
6. Harness and channel the human libido.
   Incest, adultery, rape and homosexual relations are forbidden.
   The family unit is the foundation of human society. Sexuality is the fountain of life and so nothing is more holy than the sexual act. So, too, when abused, nothing can be more debasing and destructive to the human being.
7. Establish courts of law and ensure justice in our world.
   With every small act of justice, we are restoring harmony to our world, synchronizing it with a supernal order. That is why we must keep the laws established by our government for the country’s stability and harmony.

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...dCBoRk3MEpXt4ZLMzR1HtlC5eCgXpiMhoCE-IQAvD_BwE

Each law is actually a kind of category, with subcategories. For example:
I. Idolatry
1) Belief in the unity of God
2) Prohibition of idolatry
3) To offer ritual sacrifices
4) To honor one’s father and mother
5) Prohibition of worshiping the Molekh
6) Prohibition of witchcraft
7) Prohibition of soothsaying and soothsayers
8) Prohibition of conjuring and conjurers
9) Prohibition of sorcery and sorcerers
10) Prohibition of sciomancy
11) Prohibition of demonomancy
12) Prohibition of theurgy
13) Prohibition of necromancy

Noahide Life: The Seven Noahide Laws – Noahide Life

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps @Rival will also chime in, as she is Noahide.

A Noahide is a person who accepts the teachings of Judaism, but doesn't care to become a Jew and take on the 613 laws that Jews are obligated to. They remain a non-Jew and obey the seven laws of Noah. What are those seven laws?

1. Do not profane G‑d’s Oneness in any way.
   Acknowledge that there is a single G‑d who cares about what we are doing and desires that we take care of His world.
2. Do not curse your Creator.
   No matter how angry you may be, do not take it out verbally against your Creator.
3. Do not murder.
   The value of human life cannot be measured. To destroy a single human life is to destroy the entire world—because, for that person, the world has ceased to exist. It follows that by sustaining a single human life, you are sustaining an entire universe.
4. Do not eat a limb of a living animal.
   Respect the life of all G‑d’s creatures. As intelligent beings, we have a duty not to cause undue pain to other creatures.
5. Do not steal.
   Whatever benefits you receive in this world, make sure that none of them are at the unfair expense of someone else.
6. Harness and channel the human libido.
   Incest, adultery, rape and homosexual relations are forbidden.
   The family unit is the foundation of human society. Sexuality is the fountain of life and so nothing is more holy than the sexual act. So, too, when abused, nothing can be more debasing and destructive to the human being.
7. Establish courts of law and ensure justice in our world.
   With every small act of justice, we are restoring harmony to our world, synchronizing it with a supernal order. That is why we must keep the laws established by our government for the country’s stability and harmony.

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...dCBoRk3MEpXt4ZLMzR1HtlC5eCgXpiMhoCE-IQAvD_BwE

Each law is actually a kind of category, with subcategories. For example:
I. Idolatry
1) Belief in the unity of God
2) Prohibition of idolatry
3) To offer ritual sacrifices
4) To honor one’s father and mother
5) Prohibition of worshiping the Molekh
6) Prohibition of witchcraft
7) Prohibition of soothsaying and soothsayers
8) Prohibition of conjuring and conjurers
9) Prohibition of sorcery and sorcerers
10) Prohibition of sciomancy
11) Prohibition of demonomancy
12) Prohibition of theurgy
13) Prohibition of necromancy

Noahide Life: The Seven Noahide Laws – Noahide Life

Thank you for sharing Very interesting info