If you believe in God AND evolution, why do you believe in God?

[YoursTrue]

Yes, that is correct. Jesus already conferred individual salvation upon us so that did not need to be done again....
Baha'ullah came to regenerate and save the world and all its peoples.

“Considering this most mighty enterprise, it beseemeth them that love Him to gird up the loins of their endeavor, and to fix their thoughts on whatever will ensure the victory of the cause of God, rather than commit vile and contemptible deeds. Wert thou to consider, for but a little while, the outward works and doings of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, thou wouldst fall down upon the ground, and exclaim: O Thou Who art the Lord of Lords! I testify that Thou art the Lord of all creation, and the Educator of all beings, visible and invisible. I bear witness that Thy power hath encompassed the entire universe, and that the hosts of the earth can never dismay Thee, nor can the dominion of all peoples and nations deter Thee from executing Thy purpose. I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 243

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 240-246

I am not good at science so I am the worst person to try to explain what Baha'is believe about evolution. @Truthseeker would do a much better job of that. Suffice to say that man is more than an animal and at some time during the course of evolution man got a soul, which then differentiated man from the other animals.

As I have told you before, Adam, Noah and Abraham were never referred to as Manifestations of God by Baha'u'llah. They were referred to as prophets.

So it does not matter what Baha'is believe about that. As we all know humans often misinterpret scriptures.

There are false misleading inspired utterances from some.

 

[YoursTrue]

What do you think the Bible teaches?

Do you know from bahaullah's teachings?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you know from bahaullah's teachings?

Yes. Although He did not refer to heaven and hell as actual places where we go after we die the concepts are embedded in His teachings.

 

[Revelation 21:4]

The Baha’i teachings say that we absolutely need to feed our souls on a daily basis, and rely on the spiritual resources within our reach. In fact, the Baha’i teachings suggest that the need is urgent, that we can’t afford to wait, that this is the time for us to turn our attention to the spiritual part of our being.

”…turn our attention to the spiritual part of our being.”

What exactly do you mean by this? What is the spiritual part of our being?

 

[Trailblazer]

”…turn our attention to the spiritual part of our being.”

What exactly do you mean by this? What is the spiritual part of our being?

“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 60-62

 

[Truthseeker]

I am not good at science so I am the worst person to try to explain what Baha'is believe about evolution. @Truthseeker would do a much better job of that. Suffice to say that man is more than an animal and at some time during the course of evolution man got a soul, which then differentiated man from the other animals.

That's a good enough concise explanation.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Almost "Anything Goes," in the words of Cole Porter's song. There is absolutely no proof, and by that I must qualify because naturally there's no "proof" in science==right?--so perhaps you are more satisfied with the word "evidence" that humans "evolved" to the point of having the ability to be technologically savvy way over any of the "apes" classified by scientists. Somehow that "UCA" did not branch out to any other "ape" but humans with that ability. They all (bonobos, gorillas, chimpanzees) stay the same--none of them have developed ("evolved") to make cameras, build planes, etc.

The other great apes absolutely did not "stay they same".
We changed more, sure... which is logical since our ancestors left the habitat of our ancestors - the other great apes didn't. And subsequently set out on a very different evolutionary path.


Having said that, for the bazillionth time: common ancestory between us and the other great apes is a genetic fact

 

[Spice]

Our "bodies" are primates. The mystery is in whether or not our "souls" are distinguishable from those of other primates. We know other primates show compassion, love, loyalty, as well as anger, fear, and possessiveness. So perhaps the difference lies only in the evolutionary level of the brain? Humankind questions and contemplates matters of God, whereas our distant cousins just accept what is. So who's the most advanced, really? Something to ponder.

 

[CG Didymus]

Then about "manifestations" being infallible...

The purpose of the Manifestation of God, according to Baháʼí belief, is to educate humanity.[4] The Manifestations of God are seen as divine educators, who are raised up by God with the purpose of uplifting mankind and expressing his will.[4] In expressing God's intent, the Manifestations of God are seen to establish religion in the world.[4] Each brings a book and reveals teachings and laws according to the time and place which they appear.[1] Baháʼu'lláh used the term revelation to describe the phenomena that occurs each time a Manifestation of God appears; he stated that the writings of the Manifestation of God represent the infallible word of God, and because the writings remain after the earthly life of the Manifestation they are a very important part of revelation.It's easy for people to say that Jesus was infallible, but Baha'is believe that Adam, Noah and Abraham were also manifestations. None of them, especially Adam, come any where near being "infallible"... that is if we go by the Bible story.

Here's some links that say Baha'is do believe Adam, Noah, and Abraham were manifestations. If this is correct, then what are Baha'is going by, because the Bible story of these people show them to be less than "perfect" reflections of God and far from being infallible.

The first one...

​

There is no definitive list of Manifestations of God, but Baháʼu'lláh and ʻAbdu'l-Bahá referred to several personages as Manifestations; they include: Zoroaster, Krishna, Gautama Buddha, all the Jewish prophets, Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Báb, and ultimately Baháʼu'lláh.​

​

A direct quote from one of the sources said this...

Bahāʾ-Allāh’s writings recognized all the Judaic prophets, Zoroaster, Jesus Christ, Moḥammad, the Bāb, and Bahāʾ-Allāh himself as historical manifestations of God, and ʿAbd-al-Bahāʾ recognized such South Asian figures as Krishna and Buddha, as well.​

​

Then there's this...

Bahá’u’lláh referred to several historical figures as Manifestations. They include Adam, Noah, Zoroaster, Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad. The Báb, as well as Himself, were included in this definition.​

​

And this...

Adam is regarded as the first Manifestation of God in the Bahá’í Faith.​

​

In a footnote to the document Bahá’u’lláh prepared by the Bahá’í International Community it is stated that the term Adam is used in the Bahá’í writings to symbolically refer to the concept of the emergence of the human race as well as being used to refer to the first Manifestation of God.​

​

The Báb described Adam as the First Manifestation of God,[2] and described Him as establishing a religion stating that if His religion had not existed the Bábí Faith would not have existed.[3] Similar to the account in the Bible Bahá’u’lláh refers to Adam being created by God:​

 

[firedragon]

The scientific theory of evolution begins in proper (with testable propositions and predictions) with Darwin and Wallace.

You mean the Darwin theory. Not "the theory of evolution" which predates Darwin by centuries. Darwin brought in the most recognized mechanism.

 

[sayak83]

You mean the Darwin theory. Not "the theory of evolution" which predates Darwin by centuries. Darwin brought in the most recognized mechanism.

For something to be a scientific theory, it must be presented in a systematic manner with evidence for the hypothesis and testable and falsifiable predictions. I do not think there was any such proposition in any field of knowledge from the premodern period.

 

[firedragon]

For something to be a scientific theory, it must be presented in a systematic manner with evidence for the hypothesis and testable and falsifiable predictions. I do not think there was any such proposition in any field of knowledge from the premodern period.

Lamarckism was prior to Darwins theory mate. And it was a scientific theory. Over 50 years prior to Darwin.

Anyway, what you must understand is that Darwin's theory is not the "only scientific theory" for you to refer to it as such. There are many scientific theories on evolution. This darwinism dogmatic following is blinding people or rather placing blinkers. People cannot see outside of it for some reason. You are above this Sayak.

 

[CG Didymus]

”…turn our attention to the spiritual part of our being.”

What exactly do you mean by this? What is the spiritual part of our being?

That is from an article at a Baha'i site. The highlighted "Baha'i Faith" is the link to that article.

But so does the Baha'i Faith. Here's what one Baha'i wrote.

The Baha’i teachings say that we absolutely need to feed our souls on a daily basis, and rely on the spiritual resources within our reach. In fact, the Baha’i teachings suggest that the need is urgent, that we can’t afford to wait, that this is the time for us to turn our attention to the spiritual part of our being.

 

[CG Didymus]

There are false misleading inspired utterances from some.

TB's answer is a little misleading. And actually I'm closer to believing the Baha'is about salvation as compared to what Christians believe, but they in no way believe in salvation as believed by most Christians... That Adam sinned and everybody inherited a sin nature from him. And that the works of the Law cannot save anybody... That a person can never be good enough to earn their own salvation... That only by accepting Jesus... and accepting that he, the perfect sacrifice, was the only one that could pay the price for sin.

The Baha'i Faith teaches that the better a person is... the closer to God they will be in the next life. And... that there is no real hell. But "hell" is being further from God. But even a person that did a lot of bad stuff during their life, they can still progress in the next world. And Baha'is believe there are many spiritual worlds of God. Oh, and they don't believe that Satan is real either. They use the name in a metaphorical way.

 

[CG Didymus]

That's a good enough concise explanation.

No, it's not good enough. I'm sorry that she pushed it off on you, but the question is about the soul or spirit, whatever Baha'is call it, that distinguish humans from the animals.

So, it sounds like Baha'is believe that humans may have looked like some other animal, but they were always different. They had this soul or spirit.

Now that sounds really nice. But then I started thinking about it, and I was wondering if the humans looked like some other animal, let's say a monkey, did they interbreed with the non-human monkeys? They both looked alike. How would they know not to?

The next question... Did all the monkeys that were destined to become humans all transform into the next stage of development at the same time? And how did that happen? So, let's pretend that the next stage was to be fully human. Did a pair of these special monkeys did their breeding thing and a few months later out popped a human looking baby?

Anyway, the reason I ask these types of question is because sometimes it seems like religious people just accept things without really thinking them through. It's too easy for them to just say, "That's what our Scriptures say, therefore that's how it is."

And I don't really expect you or any Baha'i to know the answer. I just wanted TB and now you to think about how the Baha'i belief would really work? And could it work? And does it make sense? Of course, it doesn't to me. But I'd love to hear how it makes sense to the Baha'is.

 

[YoursTrue]

TB's answer is a little misleading. And actually I'm closer to believing the Baha'is about salvation as compared to what Christians believe, but they in no way believe in salvation as believed by most Christians... That Adam sinned and everybody inherited a sin nature from him. And that the works of the Law cannot save anybody... That a person can never be good enough to earn their own salvation... That only by accepting Jesus... and accepting that he, the perfect sacrifice, was the only one that could pay the price for sin.

The Baha'i Faith teaches that the better a person is... the closer to God they will be in the next life. And... that there is no real hell. But "hell" is being further from God. But even a person that did a lot of bad stuff during their life, they can still progress in the next world. And Baha'is believe there are many spiritual worlds of God. Oh, and they don't believe that Satan is real either. They use the name in a metaphorical way.

As far as what you think Christians believe, let me put it this way: if I thought every group or sect calling itself Christian were truly Christian, I'd feel free to join any of them. (But I don't.) There are obviously serious differences that you might be able to see in responses. Thank you for your response.

 

[YoursTrue]

Our "bodies" are primates. The mystery is in whether or not our "souls" are distinguishable from those of other primates. We know other primates show compassion, love, loyalty, as well as anger, fear, and possessiveness. So perhaps the difference lies only in the evolutionary level of the brain? Humankind questions and contemplates matters of God, whereas our distant cousins just accept what is. So who's the most advanced, really? Something to ponder.

People have a mistaken notion about the soul and what it is. Anyway, later maybe for that.

 

[sayak83]

Lamarckism was prior to Darwins theory mate. And it was a scientific theory. Over 50 years prior to Darwin.

Anyway, what you must understand is that Darwin's theory is not the "only scientific theory" for you to refer to it as such. There are many scientific theories on evolution. This darwinism dogmatic following is blinding people or rather placing blinkers. People cannot see outside of it for some reason. You are above this Sayak.

Yes Lamarckism is a prior scientific theory of evolution Catastrophism another, saltation another. But these are all post Newton.

I was making the point whether medieval or classical age musings on evolution could be considered scientific theories or not.

 

[sayak83]

You mean the Darwin theory. Not "the theory of evolution" which predates Darwin by centuries. Darwin brought in the most recognized mechanism.

Yes.

 

[sayak83]

You mean the Darwin theory. Not "the theory of evolution" which predates Darwin by centuries. Darwin brought in the most recognized mechanism.

Yes.