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If you don't believe in.........
- Thread starter ninerbuff
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A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
That's not a very strong argument.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
The placebo effect only works if you believe.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
It also is more effective if the person has had real treatments in the past.
I doubt giving a sugar pill to someone who has not grown up around Western medicine - like, say, a guy who only knows jungle life - is going to be as effective as telling an American that a sugar pill will help them with their prostate. The American has had the benefit of being told all their lives how a certain pill can do a certain thing and it's right to a certain extent. So now - without their knowledge - another pill is given to them that is like pills in the past in that the patient has experience with it.
Comparing placebo to religion requires that some religious experience is real and genuine.
I doubt giving a sugar pill to someone who has not grown up around Western medicine - like, say, a guy who only knows jungle life - is going to be as effective as telling an American that a sugar pill will help them with their prostate. The American has had the benefit of being told all their lives how a certain pill can do a certain thing and it's right to a certain extent. So now - without their knowledge - another pill is given to them that is like pills in the past in that the patient has experience with it.
Comparing placebo to religion requires that some religious experience is real and genuine.
Skwim
Veteran Member
It frequently has just that effect. Often it isn't so much what is believed, but that belief in of itself has positive effect.
shoinan
Member
I disagree. Doesn't it only require the belief of the person affected that some religious experience is real and genuine?
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
Recent tests show that it works even if you know ahead of time that you are receiving a placebo.
Even Knowingly Taking A Placebo Seems To Help : NPR
shoinan
Member
Fascinating, thank you for the link. Maybe there's simply something in just looking for an effect to be produced even if you know there shouldn't be one.
I strongly agree.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Interesting finding. I suppose it speaks to the fact that knowledge doesn't trump belief, or that what we believe has less conscious control than we think.
Commoner
Headache
Haha, that's quite a leap there...
You don't need to have any experience with Western medicine to take a sugar pill from someone you trust and for it to act as a placebo.
Do you also think that psychosomatic symptoms developed by believers during an "alien abduction" are the result of ctual alien abductions and/or that some alien obductions/alien relate experiences must therefore be real and genuine?
I get migraines and I take Maxalt when I get them (about once a month). Sometimes I wonder if this is a placebo or not or if some of my other meds are. If they turn out to be placebos, then wouldn't that prove the power of self healing of certain afflictions? I believe we have powers that we just don't use because we don't believe in ourselves (nothing like flapping our arms and flying but certain little things).
Commoner
Headache
On the other hand it might mean we have the power to conjure up head aches...
There are a lot of ways to trick yourself into not feeling pain, for example. But that's a far cry from any actual healing taking place, regardless of whether or not you believe it's possible.
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On the other hand it might mean we have the power to conjure up head aches...
Could be, you never know.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
shoinan
Member
Just to note: a major part of testing the efficacy of medication is to compare it against a placebo in a randomized controlled trial, thus demonstrating it has an effect outside of the placebo effect. The question isn't whether or not religious belief can have a positive effect, but why it does.
Commoner
Headache
The whole point is, you need to believe it will/might work. Are you saying you can't believe a sugar pill will work unless you've had experience with Western medicine? Or are you objecting on some other grounds?
How is it different? It's not a pill or a medical procedure (obviously neither is religion), but how is the mechanism different?
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
If you ask nicely, A-E will probably give you your leg back.........
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. It just would not have the same effect if one has not had experience that builds the trust (in the practice of medicine, not a person) necessary for the placebo to be effective.
You seriously don't understand how your analogy is not a placebo? I would encourage you to simply look up what a placebo is.
And remember, I'm trying to show how I think that religion is a terrible example. So is the alien analogy.
