shoinan
Member
That would be the not attributable bit. It's not the placebo that provides any improvement but the act of taking the placebo.
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If you don't believe in.........
- Thread starter ninerbuff
- Start date
That would be the not attributable bit. It's not the placebo that provides any improvement but the act of taking the placebo.
But fine cuisine does provide improvement right? It also does make you feel warm and fuzzy, and nourish you :eat:?
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Fine cuisine could only be considered a placebo if you were actually eating fake food.
I have serious doubts about this anyway. A lot of people use or do things believing they will work and then they do not work. And that's in the majority of cases.
And then there are the instances when a person strongly believes that something will not work and yet it still does.
blackout
Violet.
... and Sex?
(*thinks... Latin... Placebo... "I Shall Please"....*)
Self administered?
So we determine that it is fake, then we consider it a placebo?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Neither case you're describing is the placebo effect then.
I made those comments with my mind on things like natural medicines and naturopathic remedies.
I hear a lot of people say that these things only work because of the placebo effect. But I think this is a weak argument, for the reasons i stated previously.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
... and Sex?
(*thinks... Latin... Placebo... "I Shall Please"....*)
Self administered?
Nocebo is more fun (I will harm) :flirt:
I need one of your dominatrix smilies.
That's a fair point to be honest, though with so many religions out there all with followers who feel a positive effect at least some of them have to be the placebo effect. They can't all be right.
The Wizard
Active Member
There is alot more to some of those things than just any placebo effect. There is alot more to some of those areas than what most people could ever imagine.
I am a meditator and also know the effects of chi energy. The scams are by people who use those arts to sell snake oil instead of any real truth.
Pratices of belief and faith can change one's entire relationship to their own envirement. It is alot more than just a "placebo effect." A practice of belief can change what a person does, where they are at and at what time of the day. It changes one's syncronization in relation to what's going on everywhere else (ie the outside world and events.)
It could mean the difference between meeting a friendly face or getting ran over by a maniac at 9am Tuesday morning- alot more than just a placebo effect there... IMO.
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ninerbuff
godless wonder
Enlighten me on your knowledge of chi......
Makes sense. I'm fully aware of the placebo aspects of religion, yet I embrace them, and it helps.
When I pray or speak to the Gods, I'm fully aware that there are no other beings listening to me, but it still helps. After all, I pray for things like inner strength, insight, etc.
Commoner
Headache
The Wizard
Active Member
I would be the wrong person to ask for enlightenment about the subject. I am not an expert on this subtle energy. But, it seems to be an energy with various properties and affects, for which it can be detected or measured by more than just the person who believes or claims it.
Plus, I had no suggestions or knowledge of it prior to the practices that lead to attaining and experiencing it. I had to go search to find out what was going on. So, there was no placebo or aspect of suggestion required for it to present itself... IMO.
The Wizard
Active Member
What the heck are you talking about?
I'm not talking about anything at all. Please go back to bed... :areyoucra
Commoner
Headache
That's a relief, for a moment there I thought you were spouting some serious nonsense.
The Wizard
Active Member
Interesting... I guess the imagination plays tricks on the best of us. But, I am not a faucet. So,I don't "spout" things... :areyoucra
ninerbuff
godless wonder
No science testing has proven "chi" exists. And the one's who claim it's real are usually from martial arts. Guys like George Dillman claim you can strike an opponent by disrupting their chi without even touching them. Of course when challenged by scientific method, it was found to be bunk.
The Wizard
Active Member
Well, there are alot of names from what I can tell that reffers the same phenomina. There are entire traditions that orient around that energy or other subtle energies. I have seen such words as, orgone, prana, yin and yang energy, life force, chi, cosmic energy, the holy spirit, etc. It all just seems to point to a misundestood energy or phenomina with various misunderstood properties and effects. Chi is what I refer to it as because that was the first name that matched it... nothing more.
The martial artist you refer to was probably engulfed in more posative thinking than anything else, but who knows.. I wasn't there. Scientific authority is a great tool for me but I don't allow it to be my only filter in determining possabilities or reality.
That guy sounds like a dimwit. I think it would rate up there with that video of the crazy monk attempting to stop that multi ton tree and ending up as a dirt sandwich...
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Well, there are alot of names from what I can tell that reffers the same phenomina. There are entire traditions that orient around that energy or other subtle energies. I have seen such words as, orgone, prana, yin and yang energy, life force, chi, cosmic energy, the holy spirit, etc. It all just seems to point to a misundestood energy or phenomina with various misunderstood properties and effects. Chi is what I refer to it as because that was the first name that matched it... nothing more.
The martial artist you refer to was probably engulfed in more posative thinking than anything else, but who knows.. I wasn't there. Scientific authority is a great tool for me but I don't allow it to be my only filter in determining possabilities or reality.
That guy sounds like a dimwit. I think it would rate up there with that video of the crazy monk attempting to stop that multi ton tree and ending up as a dirt sandwich...
I'm not going to say chi doesn't exist as I don't have the scientific know-how to do so. However, I've studied and practiced various different martial arts and relaxation techniques that involve chi. From my own experience it seems to be mostly about using certain parts of the body and certain meditation techniques to achieve an effect. Now from an ancient's point of view, disabling somebody with a touch would likely be regarded as supernatural, but we now know how it works and the manipulation of an unkown force doesn't seem to be involved. It's all about anatomy and (in the case of "energy work") psychology. Would you say that this could be an accurate idea of how chi works or do you believe it is something more?
By the way, I'm not setting a trap here, just interested to know how you percieve chi. Also, I fully approve of using the term chi to describe the various physiological and psychological effects of martial arts and relaxation techniques. I think it's far more interesting than describing it in scientific terms (despite the fact that this is how I personally believe it works).