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If you really want to defeat Trump, try a different strategy

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I can see that a lot of people here and elsewhere want to drive Trump out of office, and towards that end, I've seen endless debates and discussions over the issue.

The case at hand is "The Donald vs. The Swamp." Some might refer to "The Swamp" as the "Deep State," but it really doesn't matter what one calls it. Those who are attacking Trump and calling for his removal from office are also finding themselves in the unenviable position of having to defend the ways and means of "The Swamp," and this is a mistake. (Using terms like "false equivalence" to an excessive degree, as if it's some kind of crutch to bolster a weak argument, isn't really working.)

The latest example was from another thread (Even in Europe the truth about Trump is out in bold print), where an article written by an Ivy Leaguer opined that Trump had "attacked the integrity of the Justice Department," as if we're supposed to believe that the DOJ had any integrity to begin with. Why should anyone care if Trump attacks "The Swamp," and why would someone go out of their way to defend it?

The thing is, throughout most of my life (which began in the 1960s), I've seen and sensed strong dissatisfaction with our government and the various administrations we've had. Vietnam, Pentagon Papers, Watergate - along with noticeable fears among the general public about what other things our government might be involved in. This, coupled with widespread angst, a stagnating economy, a deteriorating industrial base, fears of war and other geopolitical instability, environmental problems, insurmountable debts, trade deficits, and so on.

Meanwhile, the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer, and the middle class is struggling to keep what it has and stay above water (hopefully).

A lot of people blame the government for this. Or at the very least, many would suggest that those who make the decisions which affect this country and the lives of our citizenry have clearly made some bad choices, based on the results of what we've been seeing during all these past decades of angst, dissent, and political polarization. This is part of the reason why many among the Great Unwashed feel a strong sense of disgust and antipathy with "The Swamp," the elite, the establishment, the "deep state" - or whatever term one wants to use.

My suggestion would be, for those who wish to remove The Donald from office, would be to stop defending The Swamp. As difficult as this might be, it might mean having to let go of one's attachments or fondness towards Obama or Hillary or any other Swamp denizens and supporters. It might mean having to question and reject the so-called "integrity" of the DOJ, CIA, FBI, and the other agencies and branches of government. A lot of people are too obsessed with form and structure, thinking that our freedom depends on the continued existence and faith in these various government agencies and institutions. Freedom rests in the hearts and minds of a freedom-loving people. It's not in the military or the poisoned bowl of alphabet soup which constitutes our government.

The one who defeats Trump would have to be just as much a political outsider and one who hates The Swamp as much as many Americans do. Someone who won't defend the policies of the establishment these past decades. It should be someone from the streets or from the sticks, no Ivy Leaguers or other products of pampered insularity.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I can see that a lot of people here and elsewhere want to drive Trump out of office, and towards that end, I've seen endless debates and discussions over the issue.

The case at hand is "The Donald vs. The Swamp." Some might refer to "The Swamp" as the "Deep State," but it really doesn't matter what one calls it. Those who are attacking Trump and calling for his removal from office are also finding themselves in the unenviable position of having to defend the ways and means of "The Swamp," and this is a mistake. (Using terms like "false equivalence" to an excessive degree, as if it's some kind of crutch to bolster a weak argument, isn't really working.)

The latest example was from another thread (Even in Europe the truth about Trump is out in bold print), where an article written by an Ivy Leaguer opined that Trump had "attacked the integrity of the Justice Department," as if we're supposed to believe that the DOJ had any integrity to begin with. Why should anyone care if Trump attacks "The Swamp," and why would someone go out of their way to defend it?

The thing is, throughout most of my life (which began in the 1960s), I've seen and sensed strong dissatisfaction with our government and the various administrations we've had. Vietnam, Pentagon Papers, Watergate - along with noticeable fears among the general public about what other things our government might be involved in. This, coupled with widespread angst, a stagnating economy, a deteriorating industrial base, fears of war and other geopolitical instability, environmental problems, insurmountable debts, trade deficits, and so on.

Meanwhile, the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer, and the middle class is struggling to keep what it has and stay above water (hopefully).

A lot of people blame the government for this. Or at the very least, many would suggest that those who make the decisions which affect this country and the lives of our citizenry have clearly made some bad choices, based on the results of what we've been seeing during all these past decades of angst, dissent, and political polarization. This is part of the reason why many among the Great Unwashed feel a strong sense of disgust and antipathy with "The Swamp," the elite, the establishment, the "deep state" - or whatever term one wants to use.

My suggestion would be, for those who wish to remove The Donald from office, would be to stop defending The Swamp. As difficult as this might be, it might mean having to let go of one's attachments or fondness towards Obama or Hillary or any other Swamp denizens and supporters. It might mean having to question and reject the so-called "integrity" of the DOJ, CIA, FBI, and the other agencies and branches of government. A lot of people are too obsessed with form and structure, thinking that our freedom depends on the continued existence and faith in these various government agencies and institutions. Freedom rests in the hearts and minds of a freedom-loving people. It's not in the military or the poisoned bowl of alphabet soup which constitutes our government.

The one who defeats Trump would have to be just as much a political outsider and one who hates The Swamp as much as many Americans do. Someone who won't defend the policies of the establishment these past decades. It should be someone from the streets or from the sticks, no Ivy Leaguers or other products of pampered insularity.

Our pal Rush was much criticized for saying he did not want Obama to succeed.

What is T doing that you want to fail?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Specifically his campaign to make America suck again!!
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Our pal Rush was much criticized for saying he did not want Obama to succeed.

What is T doing that you want to fail?
*deep breath*
Ban on transgendered in the military.
God awful policies for public education under DeVos.
Withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.
Removal of bans on unacceptable poaching such as den killing baby bears for his ****ty son.
Constantly repeating easily dispelled lies such as 'lowest unemployment.'
Wrecking American political ties by being uneducated on anything he talks about and being a compulsive liar.
His unending narcissism where he even had to make memorial day about him.
Ending DACA.
Continued support for the costly but pointless wall.
Overriding the clean coal initiative.
The tax cut.
Continual ignoring of gun violence and embracing the fat cats at NRA.
Bringing up a team unethical in a league of its own either heretofore unseen in our history levels of corruption.

Basically making America dumb, greedy and violent again.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
*deep breath*
Ban on transgendered in the military.
God awful policies for public education under DeVos.
Withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.
Removal of bans on unacceptable poaching such as den killing baby bears for his ****ty son.
Constantly repeating easily dispelled lies such as 'lowest unemployment.'
Wrecking American political ties by being uneducated on anything he talks about and being a compulsive liar.
His unending narcissism where he even had to make memorial day about him.
Ending DACA.
Continued support for the costly but pointless wall.
Overriding the clean coal initiative.
The tax cut.
Continual ignoring of gun violence and embracing the fat cats at NRA.
Bringing up a team unethical in a league of its own either heretofore unseen in our history levels of corruption.

Basically making America dumb, greedy and violent again.

I like you @ADigitalArtist , But we sure are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.:D
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
You're a Christian, so you support cutting food stamps to homeless people, jacking up the rent to the working poor, Christian stuff like that. Or should I say Fake Christian stuff like that.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I like you @ADigitalArtist , But we sure are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.:D
I'm fine with working with republicans. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent religiously motivated anti-LGBT legislation, like Pence is likely to do if something were to happen to Trump. But I'd still rather that than a president who lies nearly every day, whose profound ignorance and ego is making problems for everyone but the super rich ten times worse, and whose racism and sexism is still allowed by his fanbase to go unchecked.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
*deep breath*
Ban on transgendered in the military.
God awful policies for public education under DeVos.
Withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.
Removal of bans on unacceptable poaching such as den killing baby bears for his ****ty son.
Constantly repeating easily dispelled lies such as 'lowest unemployment.'
Wrecking American political ties by being uneducated on anything he talks about and being a compulsive liar.
His unending narcissism where he even had to make memorial day about him.
Ending DACA.
Continued support for the costly but pointless wall.
Overriding the clean coal initiative.
The tax cut.
Continual ignoring of gun violence and embracing the fat cats at NRA.
Bringing up a team unethical in a league of its own either heretofore unseen in our history levels of corruption.

Basically making America dumb, greedy and violent again.

I am no T fan. I am annoyed with him for making me vote for Hillary.

I do think tho that much of the objection as overstated above
is more ideology than substance. Saying he is making american dumb
greedy and violent again is just silly.

Tax cut-find two economists who agree and you will find them
wearing "you are never alone if you are a clone" T shirts.

If T is more narcissistic than Ms Entitled who was defeated,
that would be hard to demonstrate.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I'm fine with working with republicans. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent religiously motivated anti-LGBT legislation, like Pence is likely to do if something were to happen to Trump. But I'd still rather that than a president who lies nearly every day, whose profound ignorance and ego is making problems for everyone but the super rich ten times worse, and whose racism and sexism is still allowed by his fanbase to go unchecked.


You know, as one who is maybe a bit hypersensitive to racism,
I really do not find myself able to see how T is a racist.

Saying "racist liar" was certainly a H. mantra, but seriously?

On what real basis can you say he is a racist?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Saying he is making american dumb
greedy and violent again is just silly.
I highly disagree. Education is going down, violence is going up, poverty and unemployment going up. And I can point them to specific acts (or inaction) of this administration having disastrous effects on it.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You know, as one who is maybe a bit hypersensitive to racism,
I really do not find myself able to see how T is a racist.

Saying "racist liar" was certainly a H. mantra, but seriously?

On what real basis can you say he is a racist?
I mean like, how far back do you want me to go? That time his real-estate company discriminated against African-American tenants? That time he told a Hispanic judge he shouldn't be presiding over him because Mexicans don't like him? Those times he retweeted white nationalists? That time he said that Nigerian immigrants would never 'go back to their huts' in Africa after seeing America? That time he said that immigrants from Haiti 'all have AIDS'? With no qualifications calling Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals? Or that time he interrupted a security brief being given by a Korean security officer to ask her where she's from, and when she realized he didn't mean 'where is she personally from' but 'where her people are from,' he said a 'Pretty Korean lady' should be negotiating for him with North Korea?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
*deep breath*
Ban on transgendered in the military.
God awful policies for public education under DeVos.
Withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.
Removal of bans on unacceptable poaching such as den killing baby bears for his ****ty son.
Constantly repeating easily dispelled lies such as 'lowest unemployment.'
Wrecking American political ties by being uneducated on anything he talks about and being a compulsive liar.
His unending narcissism where he even had to make memorial day about him.
Ending DACA.
Continued support for the costly but pointless wall.
Overriding the clean coal initiative.
The tax cut.
Continual ignoring of gun violence and embracing the fat cats at NRA.
Bringing up a team unethical in a league of its own either heretofore unseen in our history levels of corruption.

Basically making America dumb, greedy and violent again.
Gutting all sorts of environmental protections
Being a draft dodging Walt
Ineptitude in all military interactions so far
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
*deep breath*
Ban on transgendered in the military.
God awful policies for public education under DeVos.
Withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.
Removal of bans on unacceptable poaching such as den killing baby bears for his ****ty son.
Constantly repeating easily dispelled lies such as 'lowest unemployment.'
Wrecking American political ties by being uneducated on anything he talks about and being a compulsive liar.
His unending narcissism where he even had to make memorial day about him.
Ending DACA.
Continued support for the costly but pointless wall.
Overriding the clean coal initiative.
The tax cut.
Continual ignoring of gun violence and embracing the fat cats at NRA.
Bringing up a team unethical in a league of its own either heretofore unseen in our history levels of corruption.

Basically making America dumb, greedy and violent again.
Makes me wonder why Obama didn't fix that before Trump even came on the scene.

Golly gee willikers.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Makes me wonder why Obama didn't fix that before Trump even came on the scene.

Golly gee willikers.
That's the thing. The vast majority of Trump's actions have just been turning over what Obama did, out of spite, racism or both.

Oh yes, I should add: Switching to attacking Obama to distract from the ****ty things he does.
 
Last edited:

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That's the thing. The vast majority of Trump's actions have just been turning over what Obama did, out of spite, racism or both.

Oh yes, I should add: Switching to attacking Obama to distract from the ****ty things he does.

Obama left a mess for Trump to clean up.
 
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