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I'm a Unificationist, ask me questions!

Spirited

Bring about world peace
Ok. Let me just say what I believe. I believe the Bible says Jesus Christ is the King of King and Lord of Lords to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, not Rev. Moon. The Bible is God's Word, not the Divine Principle. The Bible equips us to be "complete and thoroughly furnished for every good work". It tells us how everything will end and that Jesus is coming back to rule and reign, not Rev. Moon. Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the grave and is alive forevermore, not Rev. Moon. I believe we are to trust in Jesus, not Rev. Moon. My advice is to read and study the Bible for a while, apart from the DP.


I was raised on the Bible for the first 12 years of my life. I collectively read the content in it about 2-4 times (more emphasis on the new testaments). I havn't really referenced the Bible since I found the Divine Principle, because I found that it more effectively explained the stories in the Bible than I ever could. I'm aware that I don't always quote Biblical scripture in the most effective way, but I absolutely never have and never will interpret it in a literal fashion. The reason the Principle was so attractive to me (aside from having the answer to every question I ever had about the Bible) was that it directly addressed a problem I don't believe in, blind faith in that which cannot be proven. It addresses the Bible in a very realistic and physical sense that says it from conflicting with modern science.

I have recently started studying the Bible again to enrich my faith, but I believe whole-heartedly, from personal experience, that Rev. Moon is absolutely the second coming of Christ. I already am committed to re-reading the bible, all I ask is that you briefly read the introduction of the book that totally rocked my world and made sense of that which I could not. Give it a shot, the intro is short and free of blasphemy.
 

elmarna

Well-Known Member
I have heard you state that rev. Moon is the 2nd coming.
Could you PLEASE give a reasonable & to the point foundation to your claim.
I really have yet to see them being said.
THANK YOU
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
I have heard you state that rev. Moon is the 2nd coming.
Could you PLEASE give a reasonable & to the point foundation to your claim.
I really have yet to see them being said.
THANK YOU

I have a large double post on page 9 comparing Bible versus of the Second Advent to Rev. Moon. That's a very basic outline, but in order to truly delve into it I will need to start posting the DP, which I will most likely make a separate thread for in comparative religion later on when I have time.

The main reasons we believe he's the Messiah are the things he has done and the things that he has written. All of his books are incredibly insightful and he thinks years ahead of his time.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
I was raised on the Bible for the first 12 years of my life. I collectively read the content in it about 2-4 times (more emphasis on the new testaments).
That's really not much Bible study. You know how bank tellers are taught to recognize a counterfeit? They study the real thing so when a counterfeit shows up its easily recognizable. BTW, its new testament, singular. :)
I havn't really referenced the Bible since I found the Divine Principle
That is a common mistake.
I'm aware that I don't always quote Biblical scripture in the most effective way, but I absolutely never have and never will interpret it in a literal fashion.
The most effective way is not to read into it what you want it to mean, but to read it to see what the author was actually trying to say. As far as interpretation, there are good rules of interpretation you can google, which help one understand when something is literal or symbolic and suchlike.
The reason the Principle was so attractive to me (aside from having the answer to every question I ever had about the Bible) was that it directly addressed a problem I don't believe in, blind faith in that which cannot be proven. It addresses the Bible in a very realistic and physical sense that says it from conflicting with modern science.
Wouldn't you rather study it for yourself to see what it actually says rather than accept what someone else says about it on blind faith? If understood correctly, the Bible has no conflict with modern science.

I have recently started studying the Bible again to enrich my faith, but I believe whole-heartedly, from personal experience, that Rev. Moon is absolutely the second coming of Christ. I already am committed to re-reading the bible, all I ask is that you briefly read the introduction of the book that totally rocked my world and made sense of that which I could not. Give it a shot, the intro is short and free of blasphemy.
I am glad you are studying the Bible again.
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
The most effective way is not to read into it what you want it to mean, but to read it to see what the author was actually trying to say. As far as interpretation, there are good rules of interpretation you can google, which help one understand when something is literal or symbolic and suchlike.

I really don't believe a single word of Revelation in the literal sense and I never will. I would sooner refute and toss out the Bible than do that. The Divine Principle didn't only compliment and expand my faith, it saved it. I could not except the Bible in it's entirety without the Principle, because I did not believe that a lot of the things in it word for word. I also don't believe that Christ is God.

Wouldn't you rather study it for yourself to see what it actually says rather than accept what someone else says about it on blind faith? If understood correctly, the Bible has no conflict with modern science.


I don't accept what someone else says, the Divine Principle is full of direct Bible quotations which I always cross reference while reading it. If taken literally the Bible has many, many conflicts with modern Science. The Earth is not 6,000 years old, that is not debatable. People cannot stand on clouds, Messianic or otherwise, I do not believe that.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
The most effective way is not to read into it what you want it to mean, but to read it to see what the author was actually trying to say. As far as interpretation, there are good rules of interpretation you can google, which help one understand when something is literal or symbolic and suchlike.

I really don't believe a single word of Revelation in the literal sense and I never will. I would sooner refute and toss out the Bible than do that. The Divine Principle didn't only compliment and expand my faith, it saved it. I could not except the Bible in it's entirety without the Principle, because I did not believe that a lot of the things in it word for word. I also don't believe that Christ is God.

Wouldn't you rather study it for yourself to see what it actually says rather than accept what someone else says about it on blind faith? If understood correctly, the Bible has no conflict with modern science.


I don't accept what someone else says, the Divine Principle is full of direct Bible quotations which I always cross reference while reading it. If taken literally the Bible has many, many conflicts with modern Science. The Earth is not 6,000 years old, that is not debatable. People cannot stand on clouds, Messianic or otherwise, I do not believe that.
If you put other people's words in quotes with
at the start and
at the end, it makes things easier. You can also highlight the text you want quoted and click on the quote bubble, its up on the right, 3rd button from the right, by the # button. Anyway, I won't comment on this for now, getting ready to get off, and I'm on some other threads.
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
If you put other people's words in quotes with at the end, it makes things easier. You can also highlight the text you want quoted and click on the quote bubble, its up on the right, 3rd button from the right, by the # button. Anyway, I won't comment on this for now, getting ready to get off, and I'm on some other threads.

I feel that using quote bubbles more than 2-3 times in a post makes it look too bulky. I can use them when responding to you in the future if you want though.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
I talked with a Unification member who was coming around my former workplace asking for donations. He called himself a Christian. My question is why can't you call yourself "Moonians" as opposed to Christians?
 

zuluniner

Member
I talked with a Unification member who was coming around my former workplace asking for donations. He called himself a Christian. My question is why can't you call yourself "Moonians" as opposed to Christians?

marketing. people will give for christ, but not for old little korean man.
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
I talked with a Unification member who was coming around my former workplace asking for donations. He called himself a Christian. My question is why can't you call yourself "Moonians" as opposed to Christians?

We believe in the Bible, what else is required of "Christians"?
 

convinceme

New Member
what is unificationism? how do you know jesus is god and not just some other guy claiming crazy things? this is ubiquitous throughout history
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
To believe in Christ.

We do believe in Christ, I've stated and restated this over and over.

what is unificationism? how do you know jesus is god and not just some other guy claiming crazy things? this is ubiquitous throughout history

I don't believe that either Jesus or Rev. Moon are were or will ever be God. God is not a man.

Unificationism is a movement to unify all the major religious groups of the world into harmony and peace. It is lead and started by Rev. Sun Myung Moon, who we believe to be the Messiah or savior of mankind. We teach both the Bible and the Divine Principle to our followers, with an emphasis on the importance of marrying and having a family. We believe part of the path to peace is through inter-religious and and intercultural marriages.

If you are curious about our interpretation of the Bible or our own doctrine, feel free to ask more.
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
What does it mean to you, to believe in Christ?

Believe that Christ was the first true son of God, and that he came as the messiah to save humankind. I believe that Christ established the spiritual foundation for the second coming to occur and that spiritual salvation can be achieved through the holy communion that other Christians practice. I believe that the teachings of Christ are beautiful and I try to emulate them to the best of my ability, as I do the teachings of Rev. Moon which are just an expanded, more explicit version.

I do not believe the Christ is God or that God ever has or will come to the Earth in human form. I do not believe the same flesh and blood man of the Bible is coming down from the heavens on a cloud to pick us up and take us back with him. I believe a messiah would come again to complete Christs mission, I just see no reason to believe -Biblically or otherwise- that this man wouldn't be born into the world in the same fashion he was the first time.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
I Believe that Christ was the first true son of God
Or Only Begotten Son?
he came as the messiah to save humankind.
How does he save us?
spiritual salvation can be achieved through the holy communion that other Christians practice.
Does the Bible say taking communion saves us? What does the Bible say saves us?
I believe that the teachings of Christ are beautiful
What do you believe about his teachings in Mark and Luke where he said, For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
I do not believe the Christ is God or that God ever has or will come to the Earth in human form.
Why is Christ called Emmanuel, meaning God with us? Why does Hebrews 1 say Christ is the express image of the Father and is called God in verse 8?
I do not believe the same flesh and blood man of the Bible is coming down from the heavens on a cloud to pick us up and take us back with him.
Why does Jesus teach, they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt. 24:30, ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 26:64, and twice in Mark. And 1 Thess. 4:17 teaches, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. And Rev.1:7, Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, And Acts 1:9-11, After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
I believe a messiah would come again to complete Christs mission, I just see no reason to believe -Biblically or otherwise- that this man wouldn't be born into the world in the same fashion he was the first time.
Even though Jesus promised us many times that he would return?
 

Spirited

Bring about world peace
Or Only Begotten Son?

At that time, yes. At this time in history, no. Do you understand why he was the only begotten son at that point? Do you know why the rest of humanity wern't God's begotten sons?

How does he save us?

By restoring God's lineage so that we all may become God's children, as we were intended to be.

Does the Bible say taking communion saves us? What does the Bible say saves us?

Christ says "eat of my flesh and my blood", it was symbolic of grafting into his lineage to become God's children, but because he never physically had a lineage it had to remain a spiritual blessing. The Bible says that the second coming of the Messiah saves us.

What do you believe about his teachings in Mark and Luke where he said, For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.


He said this after he realized he would have to walk the path of the cross. The accomplishment was that his death laid the foundation for the second coming, which would finish his work on Earth.


Does it not also say in Luke 17:20-25, ". . .The kingdom of god cometh not with observation:21: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22: And he said unto the disciples, They days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Before I continue, it's important to note "And he said unto the disciples", meaning that THEY, his living disciples, would not see the second coming of Christ in their life time. And I continue...23: And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24: For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25: But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation*

And rejected he has been, and shine like lightning across the world he has. Why would he have to suffer if his coming would be obvious to all?

Why is Christ called Emmanuel, meaning God with us?

Because he was God's son and knew his will. It was as if God was with them. Though, as you can see throughout the Bible, all of mankind was supposed to be like Jesus and like God. It was only because of the human fall in Genesis that we lost our lineage to God and became as the children of Satan. This is central to understanding everything else in the Bible. Without understanding what the fall of man was, trying to understand Christ is impossible. This would become a massive post if I tried to explain it completely, but I feel that it's necessary so I will brush on it at the bottom of this*

Why does Hebrews 1 say Christ is the express image of the Father and is called God in verse 8?

Because, Christ is perfected Adam or the "Tree of Life"(Revelation 21-22), which I will talk about more at the bottom of the post.

Why does Jesus teach, they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This quote is very easy to understand because it includes elements of the intangible already. First of all, he refers to "heaven of heaven", which helps one understand that it is a spiritual meaning and not a physical one. After this, it refers to both "power" and "glory" which are not tangible things that one can simply carry with him literally. This is symbolic of the spiritual second coming of Christ, which I do not have any problem with.

Matt. 24:30, ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Perfect quote, read the whole chapter. I explained on page 9 of this thread that this chapter is integral if one is to understand who Reverend Moon is, the Second Advent. It describes in verse 5-14 (around there) the global situation at the time of Christs return. I see no conflict here and lots of support for my position.

26:64, and twice in Mark. And 1 Thess. 4:17 teaches, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The "air" and "clouds" all throughout the Bible represent the heavenly and angelic kingdom. The kingdom of Heaven will indeed be brought on Earth during our life times and we shall be caught in it and live with the Lord God under direct dominion. This time may be nearer than you think.

And Rev.1:7, Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, And Acts

Every eye represents all the nations of the world, just as the four winds represent North, South, East, and West.

1:9-11, After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

He left them into Heaven spiritually, just as he will return, spiritually.

Even though Jesus promised us many times that he would return?

And he has.

I'll leave room to edit in my promised Genesis explanation * I need dinner lol.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
At that time, yes. At this time in history, no. Do you understand why he was the only begotten son at that point? Do you know why the rest of humanity wern't God's begotten sons?
He is the only begotten Son because he is above all things, he is pre-eminent.

By restoring God's lineage so that we all may become God's children, as we were intended to be.
Where does the Bible say that? What about: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9

Christ says "eat of my flesh and my blood", it was symbolic of grafting into his lineage to become God's children, but because he never physically had a lineage it had to remain a spiritual blessing. The Bible says that the second coming of the Messiah saves us.
Where does the Bible say it was symbolic of grafting us into his lineage? What about, For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. Matt 26:28; 1 Cor, 11:23-25
He said this after he realized he would have to walk the path of the cross. The accomplishment was that his death laid the foundation for the second coming, which would finish his work on Earth.
Where does the Bible say his death laid the foundation for the 2nd Coming? What about: you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death[SIZE=+0], [/SIZE]Col. 1:21-22

Does it not also say in Luke 17:20-25, ". . .The kingdom of god cometh not with observation:21: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
The kingdom of God is different from the 2nd Coming. Christ lives in everyone who has trusted him, that he paid the penalty of their sins on the cross.
22: And he said unto the disciples, They days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Before I continue, it's important to note "And he said unto the disciples", meaning that THEY, his living disciples, would not see the second coming of Christ in their life time.
He was getting ready to leave them and was telling them they'd long to be back in the days when he was with them. He was not talking about the 2nd Coming.
And I continue...23: And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Exactly, don't follow people on earth claiming to be Him.
24: For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25: But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation*

And rejected he has been, and shine like lightning across the world he has. Why would he have to suffer if his coming would be obvious to all?
He did suffer and pay the penalty of our sin, which is death, so all who trust him may be saved. He has not come back yet, but when he does every eye shall see him and it will be like lightening across the sky.

Because he was God's son and knew his will. It was as if God was with them. Though, as you can see throughout the Bible, all of mankind was supposed to be like Jesus and like God. It was only because of the human fall in Genesis that we lost our lineage to God and became as the children of Satan. This is central to understanding everything else in the Bible. Without understanding what the fall of man was, trying to understand Christ is impossible. This would become a massive post if I tried to explain it completely, but I feel that it's necessary so I will brush on it at the bottom of this*
He is called Emmanuel because he is God. 1 Timothy 3:16 says of Christ, God was manifest in the flesh.
Because, Christ is perfected Adam or the "Tree of Life"(Revelation 21-22), which I will talk about more at the bottom of the post.
He is the express image of the invisible God because he is God Incarnate.

This quote is very easy to understand because it includes elements of the intangible already. First of all, he refers to "heaven of heaven", which helps one understand that it is a spiritual meaning and not a physical one. After this, it refers to both "power" and "glory" which are not tangible things that one can simply carry with him literally. This is symbolic of the spiritual second coming of Christ, which I do not have any problem with.
He did not say his coming would be symbolic. Jesus Christ who is alive, will come back himself, as himself.

The "air" and "clouds" all throughout the Bible represent the heavenly and angelic kingdom.
Do they? I think not.

Every eye represents all the nations of the world,
Correct.

He left them into Heaven spiritually, just as he will return, spiritually.
Insert the word physically for spiritually and I'll agree.

And he has.
Has he indeed? I think not.

I'll leave room to edit in my promised Genesis explanation * I need dinner lol.
Ok, enjoy your meal.
 
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