I'm a Unificationist, ask me questions!

[javajo]

Yeah, lets keep things short, lol!

 

[Spirited]

Where does the Bible say it was symbolic of grafting us into his lineage? What about, For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. Matt 26:28; 1 Cor, 11:23-25

Jesus himself admitted that he spoke in parables. Why is it that he was referred to as the bridegroom before he realized he would have to go the path of the cross? Why is it that in remembrance of him we must eat of his body and drink of his blood? He is trying to pass something on to us that cannot be passed physically, that is why we must also have our children participate in this act.

25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Where does the Bible say his death laid the foundation for the 2nd Coming? What about: you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death[SIZE=-0], [/SIZE]Col. 1:21-22

If his mission was done, why does he need to wait two thousand years to come back to Earth?

The kingdom of God is different from the 2nd Coming. Christ lives in everyone who has trusted him, that he paid the penalty of their sins on the cross.He was getting ready to leave them and was telling them they'd long to be back in the days when he was with them. He was not talking about the 2nd Coming. Exactly, don't follow people on earth claiming to be Him.

He is absolutely talking about the second coming. Why would he tell them they would long for the days that he was with them? That seems fairly obvious. He was warning them that his return would not be in their life time.

He did suffer and pay the penalty of our sin, which is death, so all who trust him may be saved. He has not come back yet, but when he does every eye shall see him and it will be like lightening across the sky.

He is talking about the second coming. Why would he predict things that had already happened? In Luke 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25: But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation*

You have to understand the time when this was written. How would you describe someone who would travel to every nation in the world (Rev. Moon) and speak and give testimony in that ancient context? They had no frame of reference to talk about that at all. Are they going to say, "yeah and these things called airplanes will exist so that the messiah can go to every people of the world...", of course it couldn't say that. At the time this was written, they didn't even know how many continents there were or what traveling the world and being seen by every nation would look like. Lightning is a great example for explaining something that will be seen in multiple places, for when there was lightening a night before, possibly any city within 40 miles - a considerable distance back then - would see it and hear it. That was the largest frame of reference they could use to describe travel.

Let's pretend for a moment, that I'm right and you agree - just for a moment it won't hurt too much I promise - how would you have expected an ancient people to describe someone who could literally cross the world talking to all peoples?

Lastly, really think about why he must suffer if he were to come in a magnificent fashion. Also, since we already discussed one of the last things he said to his disciples about not speaking in parables anymore, this, of course, must be a parable.

He is called Emmanuel because he is God. 1 Timothy 3:16 says of Christ, God was manifest in the flesh.
He is the express image of the invisible God because he is God Incarnate.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Later however, in the Bible Christ says this, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. . ." Part of John 8:44

Clearly something more than the eating of a fruit happened in the Garden of Eden. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represented the sexual parts, which they used without permission from God. The Tree of Life represents Christ or perfected Adam. Perfect man would be able to use his sexual organs the way that God had intended for them, but Lucifer (the snake) seduced Eve who in turn seduced Adam out of shame and an attempt to rectify the problem. That is why God blessed Noah with the same blessings as Adam and Eve after the cleansing flood, because they had lost God's blessing.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

1. Be fruitful, reaching ones full development (becoming a Tree of Life/ Perfect man).
2. Multiply, form a sexual relationship and bear God's children on the foundation of their fruitfulness. (This helps explain the metaphor of eating of the fruit as well, certainly God was not literally telling them to be fruit).
3. Have dominion, they are the rulers of all of the natural world, why would Christ later need to come and rule and establish a kingdom if it was originally blessed to Adam and Eve by God? It is because they fell away.

Genesis 9:1 AND God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

However, he did NOT say, "have dominion". That is because the sexual sin had not yet been absolved from their lineage, they must first fulfill God's first two blessings. If they had been fruitful (perfected themselves), and multiplied (had a lineage), then the path for them to dominion over all the earth and the kingdom could have been granted by God. However, Ham corrupted the lineage by reenacting the original sin through the shame of his fathers nakedness.

Lastly an explanation of the Tree of Life from revelations.

AND he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Clear as crystal of course refers to unadulterated truth, it flaws from the throne of God and Christ. This is referring to the Divine Principle. The clear, absolute, concise Biblical truth that Jesus promised would come with his Second Advent throughout the Bible. It has no parables in it, it speaks plainly of the Father and it comes now in the time Revelation predicted.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits. and yielded her fruits every month: and the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations. Rev 22:1-3

No one on earth is trying harder right now to heal the nations than Reverend Moon. Biased, horrible media depicting him as a villain does not change the things that he does every day for the world. I'll post a short video below that I like.

The tree of life is Christ. It was Jesus in his time and it is Sun Myung Moon in our time. The kingdom of heaven is well on it's way, we refer to this as Cheon Il Guk - 천일국.

 

[Spirited]

He did not say his coming would be symbolic. Jesus Christ who is alive, will come back himself, as himself.

He said that he was speaking in parables.

Do they? I think not.

15 And on the day that the tabernacle was reared up the cloud covered the tabernacle, namely, the tent of the testimony: and at even there was upon the tabernacle as it were the appearance of fire, until the morning 16 So it was alway: the cloud covered it by day, and the appearance of fire by night

Do you think that's literal? Clouds surely represent good spirits and angels. Fire represents truth in many cases throughout the Bible.

Correct.

Then you admit that Reverend Moon at least has met that requirement. : )

Insert the word physically for spiritually and I'll agree.

I do not believe that Christs resurrection was physical.

Has he indeed? I think not.

I will prove it to you eventually :angel2:

Ok, enjoy your meal.

I included my brief summary of what it means to be a tree of life and what went wrong in the Garden of Eden here instead of the other post.

[youtube]0t6rzr5n4O0[/youtube]
Unification (Man Of Peace part 1) - YouTube
[youtube]-DCRVl93Wbk[/youtube]
Unification (Man Of Peace part 2) - YouTube

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Spirited: It's a little misleading and disingenuous to call yourselves Christians if you don't believe Jesus is God in the flesh who died to satisfy God's wrath for our sins and then rose from the dead. You guys know damn well what that name means and you know your beliefs are nothing close to what actual Christians believe. Find another name for youselves. The name "Moonians' is even fun to say out loud. I think it's perfect for you.

 

[Spirited]

Spirited: It's a little misleading and disingenuous to call yourselves Christians if you don't believe Jesus is God in the flesh who died to satisfy God's wrath for our sins and then rose from the dead. You guys know damn well what that name means and you know your beliefs are nothing close to what actual Christians believe.

1. Uh... a lot of Christians don't believe Jesus was God. If he was the first son of God and the first Perfected man - made in God's image - than he was very much like God, but he was not God. Why does he even say this, " And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Mark 10:18

I see a greater quantity and clarity of quotes claiming Christ to be perfected man than to literally be God.

2. I do believe that his death atoned for our sins and was a foundation for the Second Advent. However, I do not believe that he originally came to die for us, but rather to live for us and have a lineage for us. His mission was to give back the three blessings that God had to take from Adam and Eve and then from Noah's family. Because he was persecuted and forced to walk the way of the cross, his only option was laying a foundation to come again.

3. Read John 20:1 - John 21:25. It is easily interpreted as spiritual. Christ seemingly appears to them in the place of where Angels were before him.

20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

So we've already established that it's at least partially a spiritual experience.

20:14-15 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou?

20:17 . . . Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Lastly, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matt 18:20

Another reference to "in the midst of them", most Christians have no problem considering this passage to mean spiritual visitation. Many Christians will even attest to "seeing Christ", in situations such as this, I see no problem with this interpretation.

Find another name for youselves. The name "Moonians' is even fun to say out loud. I think it's perfect for you.

We don't generally refer to ourselves as Christians, we refer to ourselves as Unificationists. However, we fulfill of the prerequisites of "Christianity". I would also like to point out that the term "Moonies", so often ascribed to us, is considered to be of a derogatory nature akin to the "N word" or the infamous "bundle of sticks" phrase used to describe homosexuals in a negative way. That being said, it seems fairly "intolerant" to use it against me ;p

Hope this addressed some of your concerns.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

We don't generally refer to ourselves as Christians, we refer to ourselves as Unificationists. However, we fulfill of the prerequisites of "Christianity". I would also like to point out that the term "Moonies", so often ascribed to us, is considered to be of a derogatory nature akin to the "N word" or the infamous "bundle of sticks" phrase used to describe homosexuals in a negative way. That being said, it seems fairly "intolerant" to use it against me ;p

Hope this addressed some of your concerns.

I had no idea about the word "Moonies". Sorry about that

 

[Spirited]

I had no idea about the word "Moonies". Sorry about that

It's ok, you are probably too young to have been around back then anyways (70s-80s). I forgive you.

We don't really call ourselves Christians. That's mostly me and perhaps I shouldn't be saying that. I just didn't see any problem with it as I felt we met all the necessary criteria.

 

[zuluniner]

you dont believe in the holy trinity. you dont believe that jesus, god and the holy spirit are one. john 10:30 "i and the father are one"

therefore you are just about as much of a christian as a muslim is a christian. meaning you are NOT.... even mormons, who's christianity is also disputed are closer to being christian than moonies are. and you know it too, because you admitted it yourself "we dont really call ourselves christians" while mormons fight tooth and nail to be included under that title.

 

[javajo]

This is the most jacked up interpretation of scripture I have seen in a long time. There, kept it short.

 

[Spirited]

This is the most jacked up interpretation of scripture I have seen in a long time. There, kept it short.

That's how I feel about fundamentalism, once again we agree!

you dont believe in the holy trinity. you dont believe that jesus, god and the holy spirit are one. john 10:30 "i and the father are one"

therefore you are just about as much of a christian as a muslim is a christian. meaning you are NOT.... even mormons, who's christianity is also disputed are closer to being christian than moonies are. and you know it too, because you admitted it yourself "we dont really call ourselves christians" while mormons fight tooth and nail to be included under that title.

We don't have any desire to be put into that realm, I just do it for simplicity in explaining our beliefs. None of our leadership have ever said anything about that at all. However, we do meet all the necessary criteria for being Christians. The Holy Trinity wasn't even a part of Christianity for hundreds of years and many Christians don't believe that Christ was God. As for that John quote, it simply means Christ knows God's will.

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luke 18:19

 

[convinceme]

What are the basic principles and tenets of unificationism? Is it dogmatic? What made u believe?

 

[javajo]

I'm a Unificationist, ask me questions!

What will you do when Rev. Moon dies?

 

[Spirited]

What will you do when Rev. Moon dies?

Bury him I imagine.

 

[javajo]

Bury him I imagine.

So, more messiah's to come?

 

[Majikthise]

Will we see Star Wars episodfes 7 8 and 9?

 

[javajo]

I gotta figure out how that darn force works...

 

[Spirited]

So, more messiah's to come?

No we believe that since he restored the marriage blessing we don't need another coming. His most important spiritual work to be done a few years back. We are just trying to spread world peace now.

 

[James Humphreys]

Hey everybody, as the title suggests, I am a member of the Unification Church and I'm here to answer any and every question that you have.

I am probably the only member of my faith movement to ever use this forum, so this is an exciting opportunity for anyone who's curious about other religions.

Have at it!

Hello Spirited! I am also a Unificationist. I've occasionally taken part in threads during the past few years. I admire your spunk and energy. All the best.

 

[Spirited]

Hello Spirited! I am also a Unificationist. I've occasionally taken part in threads during the past few years. I admire your spunk and energy. All the best.

Wow! I thought it was just myself and my wife. I'm happy to hear that we have more representation than that.

I get a lot of hate on this forum for saying that homosexuality is not permissible in the Bible or the Torah, but I'm here for the long haul. If people have to know, they have to know.

 

[zuluniner]

That's how I feel about fundamentalism, once again we agree!




We don't have any desire to be put into that realm, I just do it for simplicity in explaining our beliefs. None of our leadership have ever said anything about that at all. However, we do meet all the necessary criteria for being Christians. The Holy Trinity wasn't even a part of Christianity for hundreds of years and many Christians don't believe that Christ was God. As for that John quote, it simply means Christ knows God's will.

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luke 18:19

thats a far fetched interpretation of that passage my friend. i could also come up with a ridiculous interpretation for your verse, but i dont feel like playing games to justify myself in front of strangers on a virtual forum..so while your interpretation is good enough for you to hold your stance in an open debate. the real question is. do you yourself believe that interpretation to be reasonable? i doubt it. and this is where the issue lays.

how do you eplain the numerous times god uses plural pronouns for himself??

Genesis 1:26 , "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."
Genesis 3:22 , "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil."

im sure you will have another ridiculous excuse, or shall i say "interpretation" for that one too.