I'm Not a Tolerant Person

[kjw47]

Yes, this secular humanist is very much interested in what theists have to say. It's instructive, for example, to see your use of the words invade and terrorist in reference to atheists engaging with you.



You could call it that - spying - but I consider it observation. One of the benefits of this experience is to see many examples of secular humanists and of the various religious traditions, and compare the types of people and their distribution that characterize each. Using the secular humanists as a control group, I can see the effect that each of these religious traditions has on its adherents, both intellectually and morally. Where else would somebody like me have daily access to the opinions of hundreds of people, many over several years? In this way, I can understand how faith affects minds.

Incidentally, it's the secular humanists doing best on both the intellectual and moral axes. There are many decent theists here, but all of the secular humanists are bright and decent. Several of the theists are well-educated as well, and are skilled critical thinkers, but all of the secular humanists are. The couple dozen of them that post on this forum regularly are exemplary in their debating skills and their demeanor. No religion does as well overall, even if some individuals do.

Also, from this forum, I can see that the more religion a person has, the worse off they are for it. So, I conclude that while their are many decent theists also skilled in critical thinking, such people are the minority for their denomination, and are the ones that are the least steeped in theology.



This is really a remarkable comment. Did you forget what you learned between the beginning of this sentence and the end?



That's not what a secular humanist would do, as you can tell from this thread. But then, those are the people who actually take the Golden Rule to heart. No tossing, no name-calling, no reprimanding - just tolerance. As I said, these people are the gold standard for ethics for me.

God is going to toss all the wicked out of his creation very soon. God does not want his place of worship defiled. He only accepts pure worship from those who live righteous. He clearly stated--Remove the wicked from amongst yourselves. It not only goes to ones like in the op, But to all who practice sin.

 

[Secret Chief]

I realize you're directing your questions to another person, but I would like to chime in and say no, God or Jesus aren't good enough or intriguing enough for me anymore. As a matter of fact, I wasted thirty-one years of my life struggling to reconcile my belief in a loving heavenly father with my reality of suffering severe abuse while I was growing up. Despite my frantic childhood prayers to this "heavenly father" to save me, I still suffered relentless abuse, neglect, and bullying throughout my childhood and adolescence.

As a teenager, I was still clinging to my belief in a loving, merciful God, despite the fact that I couldn't reconcile that belief with the abuse I suffered, but I began to think about the rest of the world during this time. I thought about the reality of a world assiduously rampant with death, disease, natural disasters, cold-blooded murder, rape, poverty, starvation, pestilence, sexual deviance, and corruption. As an adult, I added the Holocaust and pedophiles to my list, and it included Catholic priests. These pedophile priests have been allowed to get away with raping and molesting children for hundreds of years, and this sickness has been covered up by the Catholic Church for hundreds of years. Sexual abuse, physical abuse, psychological abuse and spiritual abuse is rampant in the Christian Church, and yet many Christians judge unbelievers for their sins. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I want to be perfectly clear about my objective for writing what I've shared thus far in my post. DNB, I want to make sure you know that I'm not attempting to attack you and call you out. My post isn't intended as a personal attack against you. I'm replying to your post because I want to share my story and explain why I've rejected God in my life, and why I'm not a Christian anymore.

I've been in a "spiritual limbo" for more than a year, and I'm unable to decide if I believe that God exists or not. If God doesn't exist, then evolution is true, humanity has always been alone in the universe, and terrible things happen that I can't explain. If the God depicted in the Bible does exist, then I can only see him as a sadistic barbaric tyrannical monster, and I reject any notion that he is a loving, merciful heavenly father. I don't have this contemptuous thought about God without reason, either. I've explained one of my reasons by sharing my horrific past of abuse. Furthermore, I've also explained my other reasons, as well. If you'd like to know what these reasons are, then you can find out by clicking here and reading one of my previous posts on the subject.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things."

Perhaps "God" is real, but not the one that was described to you?

 

[Polymath257]

True could one of any. But then in the end-only Gods opinion counts.

Only if God is real. Atheists don't believe such a being exists. You do. So it is a difference of opinion.

 

[Polymath257]

God is going to toss all the wicked out of his creation very soon. God does not want his place of worship defiled. He only accepts pure worship from those who live righteous. He clearly stated--Remove the wicked from amongst yourselves. It not only goes to ones like in the op, But to all who practice sin.

Thank you for your opinion. But it seems that Christians have been predicting this for the last 2000 years,always saying the end is going to be soon. And yet, somehow, it never arrives.

Until then, how about we try to become better people? Maybe learn to be more tolerant and to help others to find out what works for them?

 

[kjw47]

Only if God is real. Atheists don't believe such a being exists. You do. So it is a difference of opinion.

Those that stand for God and learn his will. He makes sure you know he is there.

 

[kjw47]

Thank you for your opinion. But it seems that Christians have been predicting this for the last 2000 years,always saying the end is going to be soon. And yet, somehow, it never arrives.

Until then, how about we try to become better people? Maybe learn to be more tolerant and to help others to find out what works for them?

Certain events had to be happening and the world has watched them occur for years now. these are the last days and are nearing the end of them. Like Rev 13 all have watched this for years, it is still occurring, but are far past that point in revelation. Daniel holds the keys to unravel rev 13.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Perhaps "God" is real, but not the one that was described to you?

Perhaps. I hardly know anything about other gods, though.

 

[VoidCat]

@RayofLight -

I left out an “i” in Veridican. Probably made it harder to find. My apologies.

I already had the forum pulled up last night to send to someone else and had figured out Edward founded that church. I just hadnt had a chance to look through it yet. And your post reminded me to do so.

 

[Revoltingest]

I noticed, did you notice i misspelled sight again?

Yes, but you were already aware,
so no correction needed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're off topic. I already answered it - the woman caught in adultery was told to stop sinning - one exhortation among many.

Yes, but no one was without sin to cast that first stone. That's the point. Jesus never said we actually do stop sinning. Even his disciples didn't really stop sinning. Jesus never said any are less guilty of it, and clearly he expects that no one fully stops sinning.

 

[Revoltingest]

Certain events had to be happening and the world has watched them occur for years now. these are the last days and are nearing the end of them. Like Rev 13 all have watched this for years, it is still occurring, but are far past that point in revelation. Daniel holds the keys to unravel rev 13.

Posted before....

They urge repentance using fear,
and say the end is very near.
But then they must
their date adjust
to float so that it's never here.

 

[John53]

So many cults to choose from.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you sure about that?
He said that once. Actually he said to love your neighbor like you love yourself.
He talks about hell about 70 times
Of course the two subjects aren't mutually exclusive.

Once? He frequently talked about loving thy neighbor in all four Gospels.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Certain events had to be happening and the world has watched them occur for years now. these are the last days and are nearing the end of them. Like Rev 13 all have watched this for years, it is still occurring, but are far past that point in revelation. Daniel holds the keys to unravel rev 13.

Christians have been seeing these events for roughly 2000 years. Even my entire life has confidently been the end of times. I am confident I am not the only member who has heard that through out life.
So what events? What makes this time special and your forecast so confident when the failure rate for 2000 years is 100% despite it always being the end of times.

 

[John53]

Christians have been seeing these events for roughly 2000 years. Even my entire life has confidently been the end of times. I am confident I am not the only member who has heard that through out life.
So what events? What makes this time special and your forecast so confident when the failure rate for 2000 years is 100% despite it always being the end of times.

I've survived quite a few. I put it down to my iron chariot.

 

[epronovost]

But, you're being annoyingly pedantic. I have absolutely no concern about the difference, can you appreciate that much?

I do appreciate that difference; it doesn't reflect kindly on your character and the moral lessons of your teachers, but I can understand the difference.

I was denouncing what was prohibited in the Church: the whole gamut of gender distortion and confusion.

This is where my critique of your reaction to the drag queen show was not so pedantic, but on point. Only you are confused on the gender of the drag queen; anybody, child or adult who look at him knows its a man, a man wearing a silly pastel costume and acting the part with that completely silly costume. I think it needs to be mentioned again, but drag queens don't think they are women; they don't even dress and look like real women; they look like grotesques exaggerated and caricatural version feminity for comedy purpose. Yes, they wear dresses even though most women don't wear any outside of very special occasions. But, not only that, they wear very flashy dresses that the overwhelming majority would not wear because they are just too silly and for the makeup, it's even worst.

Note that in this specific example, female pastors in the Lutheran Church (because there is some now), don't dress in the pastel gold accent dress the drag queen is wearing. They actually dress much like their male peers. You can complain about the sacrilegious nature of making comedy and theatre in church, but don't go around beating the drum of "gender distortion and confusion". Nobody is confused about gender nor is breaking gender barriers. If you really wanted to be worried about "gender distortion and confusion" you could complain about the fact that there are women pastors and that they officiate in pretty much the same costume as the men pastors, but at that rate you would have to complain about the fact that women wear pants more often then skirts or dresses these days and that many, well before the pastors, work in unisex uniforms in public and that there isn't a job in the western world a man can do that a woman can't or don't.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I was denouncing what was prohibited in the Church: the whole gamut of gender distortion and confusion.

I wasn't aware the Church got to decide policy and who's allowed or not. I was always under the impression Jesus got to decide what's allowed and what isn't--not his followers--and very clearly he was more concerned about the heart/intentions of a person far more than who or what a person is. And if you tried to make yourself look better, Jesus would kick you down a few notches.

 

[kjw47]

Posted before....

To urge repentance using fear,
they say the end is very near.
But then they must
their date adjust
to float so that it's never here.

There is no turning back from this now. You actually think men can get us out of this mess? Men are causing it. In their wickedness, For the allmighty $$$, they have polluted our air, water and land, thus our food as well. Put a huge hole in the ozone layer causing all this havoc weather ruining peoples lives every day of the week. They are selling us cancer and they know it. One cannot have sex without a condom without risking aids or the such. Cannot go outside without a mask. It will continue to get worse. The us govt just handed trillions they stole from future generation who had no representation in those stimulus packages to the allready ultra rich, Threw a few billion at the poor they ended up with that to. and are so greedy inflation is booming because they never get enough. The streets are filling up with the homeless and will get worse. Murders like never before in every city, looting like never before in every city. I live in a town about 50,000 people, I know a man working at home depot, looters come in and fill carts and run out the door. The manager says do nothing, it costs more to prosecute them than what they take. This world is sick in the heart. The bible says--And the sea( mankind became agitated= protests all over the world and things like the above. Men will become faint out of fear not knowing the way out. Gods kingdom is the only remaining hope, it is knocking on the door.

 

[Left Coast]

Seems like it would be better for them to get a life.

Seems like it would be better for you to not be so rude? But I'm guessing you won't take that advice.

Is this how you talk to strangers in your real life? Be embarrassed for yourself.

 

[Ashoka]

You are not seeing correctly--The real Jesus taught-love-peace-unity. Return evil for evil to no one. The religion that came out of Rome did not have Jesus. It was the foretold great apostasy. Their works prove they throw Jesus away.
Gods kingdom will come and be a cure all for mankind. At the final war of Har-mageddon. The bible says it is good news the coming of Gods kingdom. No more world like this-No war, hatred, lying, stealing. cancer, aids, etc, etc all the way down the line. No resident will ever say-i am sick, no aging like now, no mourning, outcry or pain, even death will be no more. Every motive of the human heart will be out of love, not profit, pleasure or gain. But Jesus promised--ony those living now to do his Fathers will get to enter that kingdom--99% of all religions claiming to be christian are not taught to do that. They do not have Jesus and thus are not really christian as they claim. Most are mislead into believing they are.

This is just no true Scotsman again. "They weren't really Christians."