In fairness, it should be asked: What is the definition of...

[Subduction Zone]

The appeal to authority fallacy.

No, it isn't. An appeal to authority can be very valid. Perhaps you are thinking of the "Appeal to improper authority". You don't go to a heart surgeon for advice on how to tune one's car. One does go to experts in the appropriate fields when one runs across a new concept that one is not familiar with.

 

[Sheldon]

Your responses were...bizarre...to say the least.

Odd that, I thought the same of all of yours, but then an accusation that one's arguments are bizarre is not a sound refutation to those arguments, thus I refrained from saying so, but since you chose to voice your own subjective bias, there is mine.

You kept deflecting from addressing my points by claiming that you personally did not make the claims

What could be more bizarre than to expect someone to address straw man arguments they have not made? As of course you keep doing with your disjointed bigoted rants.

My initial comments to you were claims that these "gender activists" have been trying to confuse "gender" with biological sex.

Again I could care less, since I have made no such claims, I'm sorry you can't see the idiocy of insisting I justify claims others have made that I have not, but there is little I can do for you there.

you claimed - initially - that "...gender is a social construct, it differs from the fact of biological sex in at least that sense." Yet here you are now using the term "biological gender" - wtf does that mean?

Which word is it you don't understand? You can Google the definitions of course.

Even if you try to take it back - claiming that it was a mistake on your part - we all now know that you are so confused about biological sex and "gender" that in your mind you believe them to be synonymous.

I'm not confused at all, you are the one asking what biological gender means.

"Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time."

Did you want the definition of biological?

So - to answer your question - I am annoyed because ideologues are trying to supplant facts with their "made up garbage" and they are pushing it on the rest of us - especially our children - which confuses them and will hurt everyone.

What has that to do with me, or with the fact of gender dysphoria, and wtf is "our children", that's just hilarious.

Sheldon said: ↑
I cannot comment on vague unevidenced conspiracies, but the fact of gender dysphoria does appear to be supported by a weight of objective evidence.

There is nothing "vague" about what I have said. There is ample evidence -

You presented none, so I commented on that, and now you make a bare claim for it, and again this bare assertion for evidence is not evidence. Your paranoia paradoxically is self evident form your broad sweeping bigotry aimed at anyone who dares not share your prejudice.

It is hardly a "conspiracy" - you just seem to be living under a rock.

Nothing backs up a bigoted conspiracy like an ad hominem attack.

And what do you mean by, "gender dysphoria does appear to be supported by a weight of objective evidence"?

Which words are tripping you up?

Are you claiming that there is a "weight of objective evidence" that there are people who believe they are members of the opposite "gender" or that those people are actually members of the opposite "gender"?

No, I am pointing out that the prevailing medical opinion is that gender dysphoria is real, and not as you claimed a delusion or a mental disorder. Though I shan't even feign surprise you want to reverse the burden of proof onto me, away from your unevidenced claims.

I never claimed that there are no people who are confused, uncomfortable or distressed about their biological sex.

They're not confused, they know what gender they are, and what biological sex they are, did you think I wouldn't notice your dishonest bait and switch here, come on champ.

Yes - those people exist - but I claim that they are not actually the "gender" they claim to be and that the methods used to alleviate their confusion, discomfort and distress are wrong.

And I should care what you claim, as opposed to the prevailing medical consensus why exactly?

All these "mad scientists"

Duly noted, any scientists who don't share your bigotry are "mad", priceless.

they will never become the "gender" or biological sex they claim to identify with.

They are already the gender they identify with, and gender reassignment will help them to match that physically as close as is possible. At least you have dropped the pretence of wanting to help anyway.

 

[Sheldon]

The appeal to authority fallacy.

Citing relevant expertise is not an appeal to authority fallacy, I suggest you educate yourself on the difference.

I don't need to be a veterinarian to know what a dog is. I don't need to be a meteorologist to know when it is raining.

False equivalence fallacy.

A man is not a woman, and a woman is not a man.

Straw man fallacy.

That is objective reality.

Argument from assertion fallacy.

You and the "gender activists" would rather us believe you than our own "lying eyes".

Poisoning of the well fallacy.

Biology is the only field of science that can determine whether a person is a man or a woman.

All these "mad scientists"

that's pretty hilarious....

If my bones were to be discovered a century from now - they could come to know that I was a man - based on my DNA. No belief or delusion I had in my mind would change that.

Another straw man fallacy. I wonder how many times it has to be explained that biological sex and gender are not necessarily the same, before you stop dishonestly conflating the two?

You can talk about "made up garbage" all you want

Actually that was your claim...

The concept of "gender" - outside of linguistics - is made up garbage

- and try to use it to supplant biology

I have not disputed biology, this is duplicitous bigotry.

Again - I not only have all of human history supporting my claims - but all mammalian biology supports the claim that there are only the two biological sexes or "genders",

False equivalence fallacy, gender and biological sex need not be the same.

In order for this "prevailing medical opinion" to supplant all these firmly based facts - they would need rock-solid evidence - but they don't have it.

You are not offering facts, only prejudice and bigotry, and no one is disputing the fact of biological sex, prevailing medical opinion on the fact of gender dysphoria is based on evidence, obviously, What else do you think medical science uses, a Ouija board?

All they have are "feelings", mental disorders, some hormonal imbalances and very rare genetic disorders to support the claim that not everyone's biological sex is easy to determine at first glance.

Lies and prejudice, try again.

The "prevailing medical opinion" is based on nothing more than assertion Any "scientist" who claims that a man is a woman or vice versa is a political hack and full of BS.

Biology is the only field of science that can determine whether a person is a man or a woman.

Hilarious, so which is it? It seems we needn't bother science or medical science, you know best, bigotry is always going to dismiss facts it doesn't like. Any scientist that disagrees wit your religious bigotry is labelled as mad, quelle surprise.

And don't act like all - or even a scant majority - of scientists agree with this "gender activist" nonsense.

It is you, not me, who keeps citing gender activists, so this is another hilarious straw man fallacy.

The only reason you can consider that opinion "prevailing" is because of the hold it has taken in our society - not in the scientific community.

Ah, the nuh huh argument, not very compelling.

"The DSM–5 articulates explicitly that “gender non-conformity is not in itself a mental disorder.

Despite increased attention to transgender people, the first two editions of DSM contained no mention of gender identity. It was not until 1980 with the publication of DSM–III that the diagnosis “transsexualism” first appeared. In 1990, the World Health Organization followed suit and included this diagnosis in ICD-10.”

You literally have nothing to base your assertion on. No actual evidence.

A delusion is something that is not real - it is inconsistent to objective reality.

I agree your persistent and prejudiced denials are a delusion.

I never claimed that people do not have discomfort or distress about their biological sex - but they cannot identify as something they are not.

Another straw man fallacy, the gender they identify as is what they are, it just doesn't match their biological sex. You are peddling the same arguments homophobes have for centuries.

- It is simply not true

Bigotry is not a compelling argument

- It does irreparable harm to those who engage in it

Engage in what?

- It is used to indoctrinate our children

Your children have been indoctrinated, phone the police, who did this?

- It is an attack on women

What is?

- It is an attack on the nuclear family

Who cares?

- It is an attack on society as a whole

No it isn't.

- It is used as a tool to silence dissenting opinion

Rubbish, I have read every single word of your bigoted disjointed rants, do stop trying to play the victim while trying to victimise people.

- It is used to push political agendas

What is? When did it become illegal to have a political agenda?

The list goes on - but those are the first few that popped into my head.

Well plenty of room left in there no doubt.

The only one I can think of are those people who have "gender dysphoria" - it checks all the boxes of being a mental disorder - and was classified as one for decades - but only when transgenderism became a political issue did they change it.

The same as being gay then, odd how you accuse others of having a political agenda, when it is ok for you to use yours to persecute others who have done nothing to deserve it.

And again - using the whole "homosexuality used to be labelled a mental disorder" is right out of the "gender activist" playbook.

Poisoning of the well fallacy.

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with gender identity - so I don't know why you and people like you keep bringing them up as if they have any similarity.

Yes you do, I just explained it was because sexual orientation was also falsely classified as mental disorder, by a strident bigotry that drove medical opinion, luckily times are ah changing...

If these "gender activists" and political hacks want to change all mammalian biology,

Straw manfallacy...

my claim that a man is a man and cannot be a woman is not an "unevidenced belief"

It is bigotry and prejudice, but the world was ever thus.

The vast majority of minors diagnosed with "gender dysphoria" grow out of it as they progress through puberty - somewhere over 94%.

I have not claimed otherwise, but this is of course an unevidenced assertion here. I have not advocated gender transition for minors, you do love your straw man fallacies.

And I have seen cases where even though they were diagnosed with "gender dysphoria" - they were also diagnosed with something else - like autism - and when that was treated - the "gender dysphoria" went away.

So it wasn't gender dysphoria then? You really are priceless.

And even after all of this - the suicide rate of those diagnosed with "gender dysphoria" remains incredibly high - something like 19 times higher than the average - and no amount of hormones or surgeries changes that.

Perhaps more understanding and less prejudice and bigotry might help, exactly as it has started to among gay people.

Proving that the proposed methods for "coping" with "gender dysphoria" don't actually work.

Or that prejudice and bigotry is still causing people with gender dysphoria to become alienated from society.

I want them to be what they are - not what "gender activists" and political hacks claim that they are.

Are you happy for them to decide that, or does your bigotry mean only you can decide that for them?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Your responses were...bizarre...to say the least.

You kept deflecting from addressing my points by claiming that you personally did not make the claims that I was addressing - but that is irrelevant because I was answering your questions - not addressing claims that you made.

You also use all the "gender activist" talking points - but when the absurdity of those talking points were pointed out you claimed, "I'm not a gender activist - so I don't need to address what you said about what I said."

You just tried to deflect from everything. It was weird.

Don't worry if all this is unclear - I'll show you what I mean.

I'm so glad that you said this. It will kind of set the tone for most of my responses.

My initial comments to you were claims that these "gender activists" have been trying to confuse "gender" with biological sex.

I said - among other things - "Yet - now the media and these activists are switching "gender" in for "biological sex" - which has always been their goal."

And you claimed - initially - that "...gender is a social construct, it differs from the fact of biological sex in at least that sense."

Yet here you are now using the term "biological gender" - wtf does that mean?

You are doing exactly what I claimed the "gender activists" are doing - confusing their concept of "gender" with biological sex - with the goal of manipulating society into believing that biological sex is a mere "social construct".

The proof is in the pudding - you used the term biological gender - an attempt to equate biological sex to "gender" - to make biological sex look like nothing more than a "social construct".

Even if you try to take it back - claiming that it was a mistake on your part - we all now know that you are so confused about biological sex and "gender" that in your mind you believe them to be synonymous.

So - to answer your question - I am annoyed because ideologues are trying to supplant facts with their "made up garbage" and they are pushing it on the rest of us - especially our children - which confuses them and will hurt everyone.

Go read the headlines about Rachel Levine and Lia Thomas - go look at what the "gender activists" are saying about those two - they have both been described as "female".

There is nothing "vague" about what I have said. There is ample evidence - including your very own comment above - that supports my assertion.

This isn't even mentioning all the "policing" going around on social media and other sites - where you are banned when you use the correct pronoun to describe a male who believes they are female.

Or when you say mother instead of "birthing person" or you claim that men cannot give birth or that women cannot get erections.

It is hardly a "conspiracy" - you just seem to be living under a rock.

And what do you mean by, "gender dysphoria does appear to be supported by a weight of objective evidence"?

Are you claiming that there is a "weight of objective evidence" that there are people who believe they are members of the opposite "gender" or that those people are actually members of the opposite "gender"?

I never claimed that there are no people who are confused, uncomfortable or distressed about their biological sex.

Yes - those people exist - but I claim that they are not actually the "gender" they claim to be and that the methods used to alleviate their confusion, discomfort and distress are wrong.

All these "mad scientists" are doing is setting them on a journey with no destination - because they will never become the "gender" or biological sex they claim to identify with.

A man has no idea what it is like to be a woman and vice versa. You cannot claim to be or identify as something you are not - because you have zero experience being that thing.

The delusion is very real - but it remains a delusion.

Similar to a "Christian" being questioned about the "Christian" doctrines they parroted saying - "I'm not a Biblical scholar - I can only speak for myself - I want to avoid answering any questions about the things I have said."

It makes it look like they don't actually know what they are talking about - and they don't want other people to realize this - so they deflect.

I believe it is possible that I know more about these issues than you do - therefore I am speaking about them in the practical - rather than the abstract.

If you don't want to talk about the ideology of "gender activists" - then stop entering discussions about the ideology of "gender activists".

Stop parroting their talking points if you don't know what you are talking about.

This is bizarre.

You asked me, "Matter how?" in response to my claim that "a person's genitals do matter" when it comes to biological sex and gender.

This was when I talked about the media and "gender activists" trying to confuse "gender" with biological sex and the evidence I presented was men being introduced to spaces and activities that have always been decided by biology - not social constructs.

The fact that "gender activists" are pushing for - and succeeding - men to enter into women's restrooms, changing rooms, prisons, shelters, sports, etc. - is proof that they are trying to supplant biological sex with "gender".

So - no - you did not mention these things - but you asked me why "a person's genitals" should matter when it comes to biological sex and gender - and I answered that question.

It is not a strawman - it is a very relevant answer to your question.

And so far - all those with "gender dysphoria" are receiving harm - not help - and the ideology that led to this harm is spreading and is beginning to harm others.

Such as those women who are getting pregnant in all-female prisons and female athletes getting beaten up or being robbed of gold medals in all-female sports.

Again - I was answering your question - not responding to any claim that you had made.

You asked me, "Since gender is a social construct, a word we assign arbitrarily, how is it being used to deny reality?"

I answered that question by saying,

"The term "gender" is being used in the stead of "biological sex" and it is being used to deny the reality that men are men and women are women and no one can change their biological sex or "gender"."

So - even though you had not yet asserted that "gender" and biological sex were the same thing - that is irrelevant - because you were not asking me about any assertion you had made - I was not answering a question about anything you had said.

I was answering the question of, "How is [gender] being used to deny reality?"

Also - I need to point this out - you eventually did assert that "gender" and biological sex were synonymous with one another in your first question in your last post when you said, "biological gender".

You exposed your hand there.

So - thou dost protest too much, methinks.

I don't understand - are you claiming that people who suffer from delusions don't have "real" mental disorders?

Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there's a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity.

A delusion is a fixed, false conviction in something that is not real or shared by other people.

By definition - the belief that there is a "mismatch" between one's biological sex and "gender identity" is a delusion - because it is a fixed and objectively false conviction - it is not real or shared by other people.

Therefore - the "gender activists" set out to confuse the masses - to manipulate through wordplay and subverting our culture - mostly by indoctrinating our youth - so that the delusions held by those with "gender dysphoria" would by "[accepted] by other people".

It would be akin to a family agreeing with the delusions held by grandpa - that the lamp is really talking to him - rather than getting him the help he actually needs.

The family deciding to give in to his delusions doesn't make him any less delusional - but it might provide him a temporary sense of relief or comfort - at least until he breaks.

Society accepting the delusions of those with "gender dysphoria" doesn't make the delusions go away and it does not help them.

This is why the rate of suicidality in the transgender community remains so high - even after "transitioning" - because they are suffering from some kind of mental disorder that is no being addressed.

I never claimed that "gender dysphoria" wasn't real - only that there may be a myriad number of reasons for that discomfort or distress - and that the methods of treating it do not include poisonous hormones, mutilation and the overhaul of our entire society to accommodate their delusions.

Boy, some people really are obsessed with how people identify themselves. Why??? What's it to you?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Foxes have tails, that's a fact, since we are introducing irrelevant red herrings.

There may be a few possible explanations for your stupid comment -

1.) You did not realize that I was answering a question or you did not know what question I was answering.

- The question posed to me was, "Would you accept science that shows that you can have e.g. a male body and a female brain?"

2.) You did not understand either the question posed to me or my answer to that question.

-The question used the words; "science", "male", "body", "female" and "brain" - which describe biology or are biological terms - making it a question about biology.

My answer - which referred to our body's chromosomes - was a biological answer - specifically the field of cytogenetics.

3.) You are purposefully trying to equate the social construct of "gender" with biological sex.

- Considering that you used the term "biological gender" in a previous comment - I am inclined toward this possibility.

I was not asked about "men's bodies" or "women's brains" or "masculine bodies" or "feminine brains" - or "beings" or "minds" - or any abstract idea or "social construct".

Even if I was - both "body" and "brain" are references to biology - not social constructs - so such a question would make no sense.

4.) You have been brainwashed into believing that biological sex is synonymous with the social construct of "gender".

- Considering that you used the term "biological gender" in a previous comment - I am inclined toward this possibility.

5.) You do not know the correct definition of the word "irrelevant".

- Explain how a biological answer is "irrelevant" to a question about biology.

6.) You do not know what a "red herring" is.

You should go ask your wife about it.

I understand that she is a neurobiologist.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

So you can ignore it's relevance.

I cannot ignore what does not exist.

No one has yet demonstrated its relevance.

Unlike your subjective bigotry you mean.

Another "gender activist" playbook move.

Disagreeing with someone does not mean that I hate them.

Pointing out the lack of facts in someone's argument does not mean that I hate them.

No it's not, see I can do flat denials as well.

Yes - these have been the bulk of your comments.

I have not done this, nor have I advocated it, so it is a straw man fallacy.

The "gender activists" - whose ideology you are spewing - are those who are trying to force the world to believe as they do.

I never said it was, so another straw man fallacy.

You claimed that my statement of facts was "denying reality" and that I was "projecting".

It does not matter what anyone believes - a male cannot become a female - or a man a woman - and vice versa.

These are simple objective and undeniable facts.

It isn't, your bare subjective claims do not verify themselves.

Ok - now go look into a mirror and say this.

Cause I have all human history and mammalian biology verifying my claims.

Straw man fallacy.

Like I said - the bulk of your comments are "flat denials".

These things are happening right now in this country.

And they are happening because a small number of people in positions of power are pushing the "gender activist" ideology.

The same ideology you are pushing here.

How are they devalued beyond your bruised ego, that your bigoted worldview is not shared by everyone else?

What husbands and fathers - wives and mothers - are has nothing to do with my "worldview".

These are very basic - and objective roles - played by males and females - that the "gender activists" are trying to change.

Men cannot get pregnant and become mothers - or "birthing persons".

Women cannot get erections and impregnate others.

Well based on this exchange, I'd have to say you seem to have a prodigious capacity.

Now that right there - that is a good example of projection.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

So double digits then?

Hilarious.

The guy who - in one breath - claimed that "gender" was a "social construct" that differed from biological sex - yet in his next breath used the term "biological gender" - is making a joke about me somehow lacking brain cells.

You singlehandedly derailed your own credibility.

Your lack of self-awareness is almost as funny as it is sad.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

It's a word we use to describe certain people.

So is "*********" - are you claiming that that slur and "woman" are synonymous?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I think you're wrong, since we're exchanging bare subjective opinions.

I was responding to a "bare subjective opinion" about me.

All "gender activists" - and people like you - have done is deny reality, confuse a lot of people, hurt a lot of people and not lowered the rate of suicidality among those in the transgender community.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Tell you what -- since you know more than everybody...

Just you in regards to this topic.

...please go and tell the American Psychiatric Association that they are all fired for incompetence.

If I had the authority I would fire the political hacks employed there and focus only on the data.

The scientific community has become a political tool.

Then you make all such decisions for the nation going forward.

I don't believe that the American Psychiatric Association should be making any such decisions for the nation.

Science is not a consensus.

However - I do honestly believe that the nation would be in better hands if I were running it.

Considering that former V.P. Biden is in the White House - that could be said about most people.

As for me, I'm done with you.

Nice little tizzy.

Biological fundamentalism doesn't interest me any more than any other sort of fundamentallism.

What are you even talking about?

You consider biology to be some kind of religion?

 

[Sheldon]

There may be a few possible explanations for your stupid comment -

You're inability to comprehend a basic sentence seems the most compelling explanation.

You are purposefully trying to equate the social construct of "gender" with biological sex.

Nope, that is what you are doing.

You have been brainwashed into believing that biological sex is synonymous with the social construct of "gender".

Nope, this again is what you are doing. I have stated plainly that gender is a social construct.

You are purposefully trying to equate the social construct of "gender" with biological sex.

Nope, that is still you.

You do not know the correct definition of the word "irrelevant".

Well I'm happy to bow yo your obvious expertise on irrelevance.

You should go ask your wife about it.

I understand that she is a neurobiologist.

I have no wife, and when I did she was not a neurobiologist, so your overall ability to be wrong is impressive in an hilarious way.

 

[Sheldon]

I cannot ignore what does not exist.

Like your delusional beliefs then.

 

[Sheldon]

I cannot ignore what does not exist.

No one has yet demonstrated its relevance.

Another "gender activist" playbook move.

Disagreeing with someone does not mean that I hate them.

Pointing out the lack of facts in someone's argument does not mean that I hate them.

Yes - these have been the bulk of your comments.

The "gender activists" - whose ideology you are spewing - are those who are trying to force the world to believe as they do.

You claimed that my statement of facts was "denying reality" and that I was "projecting".

It does not matter what anyone believes - a male cannot become a female - or a man a woman - and vice versa.

These are simple objective and undeniable facts.

Ok - now go look into a mirror and say this.

Cause I have all human history and mammalian biology verifying my claims.

Like I said - the bulk of your comments are "flat denials".

These things are happening right now in this country.

And they are happening because a small number of people in positions of power are pushing the "gender activist" ideology.

The same ideology you are pushing here.

What husbands and fathers - wives and mothers - are has nothing to do with my "worldview".

These are very basic - and objective roles - played by males and females - that the "gender activists" are trying to change.

Men cannot get pregnant and become mothers - or "birthing persons".

Women cannot get erections and impregnate others.

Now that right there - that is a good example of projection.

I think you need to learn what bigotry means before you can make any useful progress,

bigotry
noun

1. obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

 

[Sheldon]

The "gender activists" - whose ideology you are spewing - are those who are trying to force the world to believe as they do.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
I never said it was, so another straw man fallacy.

It does not matter what anyone believes - a male cannot become a female - or a man a woman - and vice versa.

Priceless, you respond with another straw man fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
Straw man fallacy.

Like I said - the bulk of your comments are "flat denials".

Then you either don't know what a flat denial is, or you don't know what a straw man fallacy is, or both of course.

 

[Sheldon]

Women cannot get erections and impregnate others.

Gerraway, care to quote a single post calming otherwise?

Straw man fallacy....

 

[Sheldon]

The guy who - in one breath - claimed that "gender" was a "social construct" that differed from biological sex - yet in his next breath used the term "biological gender"

Football, ballroom...human race, horse race, race against time, foot race, wow, it's almost as if a word can have a nuanced meaning when used in tandem with another word? To a remotely literate person of course.

Your lack of self-awareness is almost as funny as it is sad.

Mirror mirror on the wall, who is projecting most of all...

 

[Viker]

The "gender activists" - whose ideology you are spewing - are those who are trying to force the world to believe as they do.

No. We just want acceptance and to be left alone to live our lives as we see fit. Yanno, we want freedom and equal treatment like most everyone else does.

 

[Sheldon]

So is "*********" - are you claiming that that slur and "woman" are synonymous?

Can you translate that into English? I sense the anger in you when people don't share your views and prejudices, that's a shame. Can I suggest you chillax and let others be themselves, and you try not to tell them what they should be.