In hunting, Why is Pride any worst than gluttony?

[Me Myself]

I dont follow.

I dont understand why someone would say it is bad to hunt if you dont eat what you hunt.

If you hunt for pleasure and to get a head for your living room, you get pleasure out of the hunt and then you get decades of pleasure by looking at the head in your living room.

If you hunt and then eat the thing, you gwt pleasure for some days...

So whats the difference? In both instances you are hunting for pleasure.

Unless you are a hunter in e amazonia next to your tribe, you are not eating meat for survival, you are doing it because of a mixture of pleasure or/and habit or/and laziness to know how to eat healthy without having unnecessary suffering being the base of your diet.

So... Why have such a completely arbitrary difference?

You wouldnt believe a serial killer of humans to be less bad if he ate the human meat after the kill, would you? I mean yes, killing a human Imho is way more morally reprehensible than killing a non human animal, but the logic does not change, just the intensity of the needless death.

 

[Pegg]

I dont follow.

I dont understand why someone would say it is bad to hunt if you dont eat what you hunt.

If you hunt for pleasure and to get a head for your living room, you get pleasure out of the hunt and then you get decades of pleasure by looking at the head in your living room.

If you hunt and then eat the thing, you gwt pleasure for some days...

So whats the difference? In both instances you are hunting for pleasure.

Unless you are a hunter in e amazonia next to your tribe, you are not eating meat for survival, you are doing it because of a mixture of pleasure or/and habit or/and laziness to know how to eat healthy without having unnecessary suffering being the base of your diet.

So... Why have such a completely arbitrary difference?

You wouldnt believe a serial killer of humans to be less bad if he ate the human meat after the kill, would you? I mean yes, killing a human Imho is way more morally reprehensible than killing a non human animal, but the logic does not change, just the intensity of the needless death.

in one instance you are hunting for the purpose of preserving life

but in the other you are hunting for your own vanity....and that is very bad, cruel & unjust.

 

[Me Myself]

in one instance you are hunting for the purpose of preserving life

Thats true for peoe who are unable to survive on a vegetarian diet.

Like tribes on the amazonia. I meant for the avarage human that not only has access to all needed to preserve life without supporting the taking of other life, but can actually do it CHEAPER than if s/he went with what he finds pleasurable to eat.

 

[Me Myself]

in one instance you are hunting for the purpose of preserving life

Another way to put that into context is:

Lets say someone is sitting near a campfire and has lots of dry wood nearby and some more meters over there he has one bible.

If this person stands up ignores the woods or uses a pair of woods to put in the fire but also puts in the bible, even though he had more than enough woods. Did he burn the bible to mantain the campfire or because he wanted to burn the bible?

A person that can eat plant based diet but chooses to eat meat , is doing so because of : habit, ignorance (doesnt know a veggie diet can be healthy for all persons on all stages of development or doesnt know how to make a good veggie diet ) or pleasure (likes the meat)

Maybe some othe rfarfetchd reasons may exist for exceptional cases, but those tend to be it: ignorance, gluttony or sloth. Pretty much.

 

[psychoslice]

There is no wrong or right, who on earth is going to judge you except for yourself, so whatever you believe is right for you then that is what you do.

 

[oldbadger]

There is no wrong or right, who on earth is going to judge you except for yourself, so whatever you believe is right for you then that is what you do.

I agree, there is no right or wrong....... the OP has a point.

When I was a kid and went out on the marshes for the first time (alone) I shot a curlew (legal to do in those days) which fell out into the creek about ten feet beyond my reach. It was wounded, and the water was freezing. It started to shiver, and I can still remember how the water around it vibrated with its suffering. I waited too long before killing it with a second shot, and that shot destroyed it absolutely. There was nothing to bring home, nothing to eat, no success to show, no pride, nothing. Just the certainty that I would never be able to forget what an idiot-jerk I had been. I never forgot that idiocy and never will.

That very day changed my wildfowling mindset for ever. If there was any doubt about whether I could reach a shot bird then I would not shoot. And so, that curlew's death did have a value, for me, but I would much sooner have had some common-sense before the incident!

 

[Iti oj]

I am trying to eat locally hunted meat only. I am against farming practice but believe meat to be an important part of a human diet.

 

[Quintessence]

I have a problem with exploiting other beings where that being is not being respected. They are treated as mere utility objects. Their sacrifices are not honored. Their pivotal role in the Weave is not respected. Their intrinsic value is not granted. My culture treats most everything that isn't human as mere means to ends with no recognition of its sacredness. This happens in areas far beyond those presented in the opening post. That lack of respectfulness and gratitude is what I have an issue with.

 

[illykitty]

I agree with you. I don't like that life is taken for granted. However I don't think that moral arguments do much to most people, they get defensive and/or shut you off. A logical basis on why eating meat has bad effects on the world and humans holds more ground. At least if they refuse then it's their own fault, numbers and research are there, it's illogical to deny it, purely on a cultural and emotional basis.

It uses more resources vs just eating plants and produces more carbon footprint. A lot of the world's crops and water are for the use of animals! Then there's things like transport, burning of forests, etc. Most will agree you can be perfectly healthy without meat or even healthier if well done (I was). So it's inefficient, wasteful and unnecessary (for most).

I won't place myself on high grounds though since I am guilty of eating meat at times (pressure, culture, taste) but trying to eat vegetarian/vegan most of the time is better than not at all. It would be a whole lot better to lose weight and have optimal blood tests again, that's for sure!

I'd imagine if people ate less meat, less often it would make quite a difference. It would be a good start and couple that with choosing meat from places that offer more ethical treatment of the animals, then it's a whole lot nicer. I would never call this the best humans can achieve though!

 

[Me Myself]

I am trying to eat locally hunted meat only. I am against farming practice but believe meat to be an important part of a human diet.

Have you ever researched about it? If meat wasnt at all needed in human diet, would you believe gastronomical pleasure to be any better than pride when hunting?

I agree with you. I don't like that life is taken for granted. However I don't think that moral arguments do much to most people, they get defensive and/or shut you off. A logical basis on why eating meat has bad effects on the world and humans holds more ground. At least if they refuse then it's their own fault, numbers and research are there, it's illogical to deny it, purely on a cultural and emotional basis.

It uses more resources vs just eating plants and produces more carbon footprint. A lot of the world's crops and water are for the use of animals! Then there's things like transport, burning of forests, etc. Most will agree you can be perfectly healthy without meat or even healthier if well done (I was). So it's inefficient, wasteful and unnecessary (for most).

I won't place myself on high grounds though since I am guilty of eating meat at times (pressure, culture, taste) but trying to eat vegetarian/vegan most of the time is better than not at all. It would be a whole lot better to lose weight and have optimal blood tests again, that's for sure!

I'd imagine if people ate less meat, less often it would make quite a difference. It would be a good start and couple that with choosing meat from places that offer more ethical treatment of the animals, then it's a whole lot nicer. I would never call this the best humans can achieve though!

Oh me neither. Yes I am a veg, but I dont really control from where my milk comes from. I made the change because I wanted to contribute less to that which I dont agree with, but I am aware I still contribute to it.

I know people get defensive, that's why I only do this on debate forums

 

[Me Myself]

I have a problem with exploiting other beings where that being is not being respected. They are treated as mere utility objects. Their sacrifices are not honored. Their pivotal role in the Weave is not respected. Their intrinsic value is not granted. My culture treats most everything that isn't human as mere means to ends with no recognition of its sacredness. This happens in areas far beyond those presented in the opening post. That lack of respectfulness and gratitude is what I have an issue with.

Sorry the silly question but do you think the deer knows the difference if he was killed by a hunter with grattitude or not?

 

[psychoslice]

Sorry the silly question but do you think the deer knows the difference if he was killed by a hunter with grattitude or not?

That's it, the dear wouldn't have a clue, this idea of respect is just trying to hind the guilt.

 

[DallasApple]

Thats true for peoe who are unable to survive on a vegetarian diet.

Like tribes on the amazonia. I meant for the avarage human that not only has access to all needed to preserve life without supporting the taking of other life, but can actually do it CHEAPER than if s/he went with what he finds pleasurable to eat.

Some people honestly believe an all vegetable/fruit /grain/legume diet is incomplete. It has been ingrained in us meat is an essential part of our diet.

Not only that if you do not 100% believe that ? Eating meat may not just be for "pleasure" for some .In some instances it can be "cheaper" to eat meat .

 

[Quintessence]

Sorry the silly question but do you think the deer knows the difference if he was killed by a hunter with grattitude or not?

You ask this question as if virtue depends on the status or character of the other being. It does not, and should not. Neither this question nor its answer is relevant to upholding a virtue. The point is to uphold the virtuous ideal that respects the sacredness and intrinsic worth of all things - or at the very least demonstrates gratitude and thankfulness that puts a stopper in things like pride and gluttony. A mindset that focuses on intrinsic worth derails tendencies to exploitatively abuse things that are deemed not-self, as their value is independent of your assessments of them. This makes your question irrelevant.

 

[DallasApple]

There is also a difference in eating meat. And killing an animal and running around saying LOOK WHAT I KILLED! For FUN! Beating on your chest like you are all that. When without your big gun and your BIG BIG ammo the animal could have escaped you with ease or beat you in 4 seconds flat hands down.

Its pride.

 

[DallasApple]

or at the very least demonstrates gratitude and thankfulness that puts a stopper in things like pride and gluttony. S

One of my favorite scenes in Last of The Mohican's was at the very beginning. They hunted down an Elk . They were grateful to the animal for it sacrificing its life (of course it wasn't voluntary that's not the point) It was a matter of respecting the animal that it died and they were going to eat it to live.

I'm sure that sounds quirky but Oh well I think that would keep a handle on abuse and glutteny to view it that way. Not to take it lightly .Like HA HA I got YOU!

 

[DallasApple]

That's it, the dear wouldn't have a clue, this idea of respect is just trying to hind the guilt.

Respecting the animal is not hiding "guilt." If anything its displaying humility.

 

[DallasApple]

Yes I am a veg, but I dont really control from where my milk comes from

Milk is an animal product so you are not a vegetarian. You mention you eat eggs too. That is animal protein not vegetable.

 

[metis]

In Judaism, hunting is only allowed for health's/survival's sake, not for pleasure. It is not kosher slaughter for one, and killing something for pleasure is pretty sadistic in our way of thinking.

 

[DallasApple]

It uses more resources vs just eating plants and produces more carbon footprint. A lot of the world's crops and water are for the use of animals! Then there's things like transport, burning of forests, etc. Most will agree you can be perfectly healthy without meat or even healthier if well done (I was). So it's inefficient, wasteful and unnecessary (for most).

This is true . Raising "meat" has a more harmful effect on our environment than driving cars does.